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ineffable-romantics · 2 years ago

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Some thoughts on why and how I believe Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship would incorporate sex/why I do not read them as wholly asexual:

This is something I've seen the most discourse about in this fandom, and I've had a few thoughts of my own that I really wanted to expand upon in a full meta/character analysis post. I do understand that this can be a contentious topic, so first, let me clarify a few things:

First of all, this is going to be long. Tbh it probably won't be that organized either. I ramble and I'm not very good at editing, so just... you know. Be warned. (*Hi, it's me from 2 days after writing this; I'm really not kidding, it's LONG)

These are all my own thoughts. They might not be hot takes, because recently I've seen more than a few people come to the same conclusions on a lot of these points as I have. But I've also had these notes in my drafts for about a week and a half now, and have been continuously adding to it as things have occurred to me. This post is essentially just somewhere for me to collect the separate but related meta I've been kicking around in my head.

I fully respect anyone who does see and prefer an asexual reading of this relationship. These are my own thoughts and interpretations as someone who is not asexual. I am in the LGBT+ community, so while I do know a few things about the asexuality spectrum, I am by no means an expert.

This is NOT something I expect, need, or even necessarily want the show (or, God forbid, Neil's tumblr ask box) to address. Tonally, it's just not that kind of show. Newt and Anathema's sex scene was very much played for laughs, and it worked for that reason. If the show found a way to address it in a way that was both appropriate for the tone of the show and ultimately satisfying, then great! But there is so much more to this relationship than sex, and I didn't need a kiss to confirm their love, so I certainly don't need a sex scene. As immortal beings (as I assume they'll stay) there is so much of the rest of their lives we'll never get to see. You can headcanon them as asexual and potentially be right. I can headcanon them as not and be equally potentially right. Again, these are just a collection of my own thoughts, because I think the question of sexuality (or lack thereof) is just as interesting a facet of these characters as any other.

Note: Tbh I've been second-guessing this whole post and debated deleting the whole thing several times for being silly or unnecessary, bc I don't want anyone to think that this is the only thing I care about when it comes to this story/characters. But if nothing else, it's inspired me to write in a way that nothing has in a very long time, so I've decided it's worth continuing, if for no other reason than that.

This is going to be a mixed bag of textual reading, subtextual reading, and a full-on reach or two. It's been a while since I've been in an English class, but if my teachers expected me to find a deeper meaning behind blue curtains, you can expect me to read too deeply into the symbolism of a loaded rifle or an ox rib. (This is probably not what my professors had in mind when grading my literary analysis papers but oh well) My point is, if it feels like a reach, I'm as aware of it as you are. I am in no way saying that all (or even any) of my points made were deliberate on the part of Neil or the actors or the writers or the directors. I am no longer the delulu Apple Tree Yard child of my youth, I promise.

If anything said here is in any way offensive or hurtful to anyone in the asexual community, please do not hesitate to message me or comment and let me know exactly what it was. I promise you it is not my intention to do so, and am happy to clarify or outright edit anything that reads that way.

With all that being said, let's talk about why I think Crowley and Aziraphale would absolutely fuck nasty incorporate sex into their relationship.

Note: I am out of practice with essay writing, so I think I'll just go down the bullet points of notes I have been making, and expand on each as best I can

Food

Where better to start than with Aziraphale's introduction to Pleasures Of The Flesh? (Just a heads up, this entire post may feel very Aziraphale-heavy, and with good reason).

This might be the least hot take here. We've all seen the Job minisode. We've all seen That Scene.

Whether this was intentional or not, the symbolism here is off the charts. Eve was tempted by an apple. So why not go a similar route and tempt Aziraphale with another fruit, or cheese, or bread, or literally anything else for his first experience with food? Instead, we go with a huge, glistening slab of fresh meat that he proceeds to absolutely go feral upon, moaning and gasping into his meal while Crowley watches with what definitely doesn't look to be disgust or even satisfaction with a good temptation. There's surprise at the ferocity of Aziraphale's appetite, certainly. But ultimately he looks to be intensely fascinated by it, while the thunder crashes, the music crescendos, and the earth literally shakes around them.

(It's also interesting to note how very little it takes for Crowley to tempt him with the ox rib. One murmured suggestion, a bit of unwavering eye contact, and vavoom Aziraphale immediately meets him in the middle.)

Cut to Aziraphale devouring the rest of the meat with Crowley splayed back on a makeshift bed, drinking wine and continuing to watch him indulge through half-lidded eyes. Outside a thunderstorm rages while they're learning secrets about each other in warm flickering firelight. It's cosy, it's intimate, and if they'd thrown in a bearskin throw blanket, it might as well be a post-coital scene straight out of Game of Thrones.

The next time (chronologically) we see them discuss food is when Aziraphale "tempts" Crowley with oysters in Rome. So Crowley first tempts Aziraphale with meat and then Aziraphale tempts Crowley with what is widely regarded to be an aphrodisiac. Interesting.

And then chronologically after that, the Arrangement begins to form, which has always reeked of a friends with benefits situation. Just to throw that in there.

It's What Humans Do

In the very first episode, we're shown Gabriel's obvious disgust and bewilderment towards Aziraphale eating sushi, calling it "gross matter" and being proud of the fact that he does not sully his body with it. Aziraphale initially tries to defend his own enjoyment in it, before passing it off as something that humans do, as something he simply has to do in order to blend in (which we know very well is not the case).

He does this again in season 2, passing off Nina and Maggie being in love as "something humans do". But it isn't, is it? Angels are beings of love, and can sense it, and understand very well what it is... up to a point. Even romantic love is obviously within their wheelhouse, given what we now know happened between Gabriel and Beelzebub (we'll come back to them).

What the "humans do" that angels wouldn't understand is messy, physical forms of love.

But here's the thing: Aziraphale and Crowley love doing what the humans do. They love drinking, they (or at least Aziraphale) love eating. They love music. Crowley loves driving and sleeping and watching rom-coms and sitcoms. Aziraphale loves reading and doing magic and earning little licenses and certificates for achievement in his various hobbies. They love to playact at being human so much that they've stopped playacting and started building a genuinely human lifestyle for themselves and with each other.

Once together in an unambiguously romantic sense, why do we think they wouldn't also want to explore one of the most prominent, intimate, powerful human expressions of love and desire with each other?

Angels, Demons, & Asexuality

Here's where I really want to clarify that in no way do I mean that sex is necessary for a healthy, fulfilling, and loving romantic relationship, or that the lack of desire for sex makes you any less human. Asexuality is a sexuality as valid and human as any. What I would say is that it is definitely in the human minority compared to allosexuality.

Angels and demons, on the other hand, are predominately asexual. Sexless/genderless unless Making An Effort. (Which, btw, is a concept introduced as early as the original book; why even bring it up as a possibility? Why not keep angels/demons being sexless/asexual as a hard and fast rule, if not to open up the potential for later use? Chekhov's Effort, if you will. And isn't that something that Aziraphale in particular is shown to do time and time again? He makes an effort in French and driving and magic, doesn't he?)

And this is why I don't believe Aziraphale and Crowley necessarily need to be asexual, narratively. There is already a huge amount of ace rep within the angels and demons (and no, not just the horrible ones. Muriel also doesn't "drink the tea" and has no reason or desire thus far to Make An Effort, and there are certainly other angels and demons who aren't horrible like the archangels seem to be who likely wouldn't Make An Effort either).

The central conflict for Aziraphale and Crowley is that they are on their own side, the ones who went native, the ones who are so different in so many ways from their respective hives. It would make sense for them to also break away from traditional angel/demon asexuality.

I say "traditional angel/demon asexuality", because I would also like to note that I would absolutely not rule out demisexuality for either of them. This post is being written to as a response to people who specifically believe that they (like the rest of the angels/demons seem to be) would be sex-averse in a relationship, and that it wouldn't be a factor in their relationship. I could easily read them as demisexual, but I do think there would be no real way of verifying this, because they've never been able to form as close an emotional relationship with anyone else but each other. Certainly not in heaven, and I can't imagine they would be able to form that kind of attachment with any of the humans, who they love and emulate but ultimately regard as the separate species they are. So yes, they could either be allosexual or demisexual, in my opinion.

Then again, now that I think about it, Making An Effort itself could be a great metaphor for demisexuality, since they would be entirely sexless/asexual until they have enough of an emotional connection with someone to consciously manifest otherwise. Since the other angels and demons don't generally form those types of emotional connections with anyone, there hasn't been a precedent for it.

Except...

Brielzebub

We do have a precedent for it now, don't we? Gabriel and Beelzebub fell in love. They are a direct foil for Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, speedrunning right through their courtship and finding their happily ever after on the other side of things.

For being such a 1 to 1 comparison, it feels deliberate that they did not kiss. They held hands, they were gooey with each other, but they did not kiss. That feels like such a deliberate thing to omit when you know what's to come at the end of the episode between Crowley and Aziraphale.

And going back to the food = sex metaphor for a moment, let's notice how even as they fell in love over the years, even when pints and crisps were there on the table in front of them, they never felt the desire to reach out for them. They didn't need to. It's a date (love story) even if you aren't eating dinner (sleeping together).

Yes, I know Jim liked hot chocolate. No, I am not counting it because I don't consider Jim and Gabriel to be the same person with the same proclivities, and Jim was highly suggestible at the time anyway.

Gabriel and Brielzebub's big happily ever after moment (as of now) was one between two asexual supernatural beings. They did not need to kiss to drive the point home. They showed what Crowley and Aziraphale could have, if they would only acknowledge it.

Crowley & Aziraphale's Dissatisfaction

But they do have that already, don't they? If you really think about it, what do Gabriel and Beelzebub do with each other that Crowley and Aziraphale don't already? They hold hands, they spend time together, they create little rituals, they give gifts, they're visibly and verbally affectionate with each other, etc. They are more or less already in a romantic asexual marriage relationship with each other, aren't they?

And it doesn't seem to be enough for either of them.

At the beginning of the season, Crowley is immediately shown to be unsatisfied with the way things are. Obviously part of it comes from living in his car, but it seems to be more than that (especially since Aziraphale makes it clear that the bookshop is just as much Crowley's as his, implying that he could have been living there the whole time and is choosing not to, for some reason?). You could argue he's feeling unmoored without Hell telling him what to do, but isn't that what he wanted? Isn't that what he still wants, by the end of the season? All season long, he's never indicated the desire for a new job, or a new project. He stopped the apocalypse because he wanted the freedom to openly spend time with Aziraphale, to spend his time on Earth however he sees fit. Until Gabriel arrives, he has exactly that (minus a flat).

So where does the dissatisfaction come from? And if it represents anything to do with his relationship, what does he want out of it that he isn't getting already?

I think Crowley only really comes to the realisation of what he's missing when Nina names it for him, not only putting them in the category of romantic, but physical (outright asking if they are sleeping together). These two posts [1], [2] go into more detail about what I mean, but I think it really pushes him into acknowledging that their relationship is more human than either of them have stopped to consider, and what that might mean as far as everything a human relationship can entail.

After all, Nina and Maggie only advised that he should talk to Aziraphale, make clear his feelings. The decision to kiss him, to tip them over the edge from nonphysical to physical, that was all him. And no, kissing isn't sex, but I wonder how taboo even that might be in the kind of all-encompassing asexuality most angels seem to identify with. (If they're disgusted by food and drink, I can only imagine what they think of snogging, much less sex.)

Aziraphale doesn't have this moment of someone observing their relationship from the outside. He loves Crowley, and as of 1941 probably even knows he's in love with him in a way that Crowley doesn't understand yet. Which makes sense, since love is technically his job, he'd be more likely to recognise it for what it is.

However, Aziraphale's reference for romance and relationships is Jane Austen. It's chaste. It's dancing and dinner and doing sweet things for each other and roses and candles and handholding. He contextualises his love for Crowley in that soft fantasy sort of way, where it's there, it's obviously there, but it's neat and easy and unspoken. Not to quote Glee in this, the year of our lord 2023, but it's all very "the touch of the fingertips is as sexy as it gets".

Someone should tell that to Aziraphale's face, then.

I'm not going to pretend I know what Michael Sheen's script notes were, but there were definitely some Choices™ made. Because yes, there were plenty of moments in both seasons with Aziraphale looking at Crowley in a sweet, loving, smitten way. And then there were moments that were yearning.

But yearning for what, exactly? All of those sappy Jane Austen tropes already apply to the two of them. So why are there moments where Aziraphale is looking Crowley up and down like the last eclair in the window and licking his lips and visibly exhaling like he's trying to get in control of himself (see: Bastille scene + Crowley telling Muriel to ask him if they have any other questions about love)? Why is Aziraphale not only unconcerned when Crowley shoves him bodily up against a wall in s1, but staring at his lips and a beat too late in noticing Sister Mary's arrival? Why are some of his lines so suggestive? I'm sorry, but the car ride after the church explosion might as well have been the beginning of a Pizza Man porn with a really weird Blitz theme. If even my mother picked up on that vibe, I can't imagine it wasn't intentional on part of both the dialogue and the delivery.

(This section may feel like more of a reach/joke, but I'm really only 20% joking. These are writers and actors who are EXTREMELY good at their jobs; they know what they were doing here.)

More importantly, I don't think Aziraphale is even aware that there is more to what he wants. He lives in the Jane Austen fantasy and it never even occurs to him that he might be interested in anything further. It never even occurs to him that, as an angel, there is anything further to be interested in in the first place. Until Crowley forces it to occur to him. Just like I believe Nina forced Crowley to confront the idea that romantic love is what he's been feeling all along, I believe Crowley forced Aziraphale to confront the idea that physical intimacy is something he's been wanting, without even realising.

Aziraphale's Hedonism

Expanding on Aziraphale for a moment. We talked about his relationship with food, but we all know that Aziraphale is defined by his love of things that Feel Good.

It isn't just that he and Crowley love human things. Aziraphale loves the best of the best, or at least his version of it. He doesn't just love food, he loves going to fancy restaurants. He doesn't just love clothes, he loves soft, cosy, warm, plush clothes, or shiny, flashy, bougie fashion. He loves the warmth of tea and cocoa, loves getting drunk, and sitting in a comfy chair in the sunlight. He doesn't just experience, he indulges.

Given the emphasis put on things that Aziraphale loves just because they Feel Good, it feels narratively strange to assume that he wouldn't enjoy the feeling of being touched, or that he wouldn't be willing to try it, at least once, with someone he cared very deeply for. And just like the ox rib, I think that once he gets the first taste of things, he would absolutely tip over into complete and utter self-indulgence.

Dancing

I also think that dancing could be construed as a huge metaphor here. After all, we're told flat-out that angels don't Dance. Except one.

I would argue that Aziraphale, in fact, Made An Effort to learn how to Dance. He threw himself into the gavotte with delight (at a Victorian gay club; noted) and worked hard to be good at it. He's chomping at the bit to Dance with Crowley, working up the nerve to ask him with undeniably romantic intent and eagerness. So, angels don't Dance... unless they Make An Effort to do so.

We are told that demons, on the other hand, do Dance, but not well. Makes sense, since they're the ones who would want to encourage a deadly sin like lust, but have as little understanding of human love and physical intimacy as the angels. Crowley, however, is shown to be an excellent dancer at the ball, especially in his compatibility with Aziraphale.

(But Aziraphale WandaVisioned the ball so everyone knew how to dance! Yes, he did. However, the rest of the brainwashing doesn't seem to affect Crowley in any way, and they did actually live through the time period where this sort of dancing was a social norm; I'd be surprised if he never needed to learn. After all, the demons can't spell either, and Crowley is at least functionally literate, as far as we know.)

As of today, it's also been confirmed that when Aziraphale asked Crowley to dance, Crowley replied with "you don't dance." Not "WE don't dance". So going along with the metaphor, Crowley is just now discovering that Dancing is something Aziraphale is interested in at all, much less with him, and not denying that he himself is interested in Dancing. In his defense, I believe he was asleep for a few years while Aziraphale was learning the gavotte, so he wasn't exactly aware of Aziraphale's hot girl summer.

Love Languages

I want to expand on that; Crowley and Aziraphale's compatibility. Specifically in regards to their individual love languages.

We all know Crowley's love language is Acts of Service. I don't think there's any debate there. He loves it, Aziraphale loves it, they're both aware of it, we're all aware of it, God and Satan are aware of it, no surprise there.

You may disagree with me, but I believe Aziraphale's love language is Physical Touch, for a number of reasons. One of which being his aforementioned hedonism. Aziraphale likes things that Feel Good, remember? He likes soft clothes, and well-worn books. Neil himself has said that they like holding hands. And any time he is taken by surprise (Brielzebub getting together, the wave of love in Tadfield, etc.) what is the first thing he does? Reaches out for Crowley. He stops him with a hand to the chest in the pub. He leads him by the hand to the dance floor. He guides him by the waist in the graveyard. He reaches out during the entire Brielzebub scene, whether he can reach Crowley or not. Despite his own turmoil, he grasps at Crowley's back during the kiss.

The one time Crowley reaches out for him (not counting the kiss yet; we'll get there), he is aggressively pushed against a wall (by someone he loves and trusts) with a complete and utter lack of concern (and perhaps some interest, depending on how you read it).

And when he isn't reaching out for anyone, or there isn't anyone to reach out to? Well, he's wringing his own hands together, squeezing his own fingers, as if to find that physical comfort in himself.

So. With that theory in mind, we have Aziraphale (Physical Touch) + Crowley (Acts of Service). Throw in 6000+ years of deep love, cherished companionship, and forcibly repressed longing, and there is a very real potential of this combination resulting in fierce sexual compatibility. Where Aziraphale would want to touch and be touched, to indulge in physical pleasure with someone he adores, in the same the way he indulges in every other fine thing in his life. And where Crowley would want to indulge him in return, to give him everything he wants, and to take pleasure in Aziraphale's pleasure, in the same way he enjoys watching him take joy in food everything else.

So Aziraphale is an angel who is insecure about his own less-than-holy desires, who would want to treat Crowley like a luxury to be touched and cherished and adored. And Crowley is a demon who has, over the millennia, been unhappy about how they've been forced to deny even their friendship with each other, who would want Aziraphale to feel comfortable and safe and encouraged to indulge in earthly delights. That sounds like a stunning recipe for sexual compatibility to me.

"You said 'trust me'" / "And you did"

Just like the Job minisode, the Blitz is RIFE with symbolism (intentional or otherwise). This one will be quick, but I did want to touch on it because I thought it was interesting. Maybe I'm reaching at this point, but I'm assuming you read the tin.

First of all, Crowley not wanting to admit to never firing a gun before; comes off as someone who very much does not want to admit to their crush that they're a virgin ("You must have done this lots of times!" / "Umm.... yyyyyeah.")

(You could make the argument that Aziraphale having a firearms license and a Derringer in a hollowed-out book is symbolic of him not being a virgin while Crowley is. I disagree, for reasons I'll go into later, but it's a valid reading. However, I see it more like keeping a condom in your wallet; it's there in case you need it, but the opportunity has not yet risen no pun intended.)

More importantly, the theme of this entire minisode is trust. We already know they trust each other with their lives against the rest of Heaven, Hell, and the world. But specifically, this is about the importance of having complete trust in your partner in a charged, physically vulnerable, intimate moment, where the only danger is between the two of you.

Aziraphale needs to believe Crowley would never hurt him if he can help it. Crowley needs to trust Aziraphale's unwavering blind faith in him. Frankly, it all feels very symbolic of two people deeply in love losing their respective virginities with each other.

The trick is a success, and they share an intimate candlelit dinner in which they reaffirm their faith in each other. Aziraphale also begins to voice his agreement with Crowley, that maybe Heaven's rules shouldn't have to be as black and white as they are, and that there are benefits to... blurring the lines, shades of grey, wink wink (at which point even my mom was like, whoa guys, this is a family show).

Btw also: Can we all agree how much it looked like Crowley was getting ready to get a lapdance in that one scene? You know the one.

Also also: "Aim for my mouth"? Come on.

The Birds & The Bees

Now that I think of it, there's also something to be said for the fact that Crowley and Aziraphale are both obviously familiar with where babies come from (how they're made and how they're born) while the other angels aren't.

Something something Aziraphale and Crowley fundamentally understand sex and reproduction in a way the other angels (and probably demons) very much do not, nor have any desire to.

Probably not important. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

The Kiss™ & Religious Trauma

The Kiss. Where to even begin?

This has definitely been the hardest one to start, because there is so much going on here that I definitely won't be able to cover it all, and will certainly miss a few things here and there.

Aziraphale's reaction to the kiss afterwards is the most interesting to me. And I don't mean directly after, I don't mean the "I forgive you" part. I mean the way he touches his lips when Crowley is no longer in the room and he no longer needs to save face, when he is completely alone. Had it been directly after the kiss, it would have been rightfully read as horror, or disgust, a shield to discourage further action.

It's not. It isn't just a touch, it's a press. As desperate and angry and unexpected and imperfect as the kiss had been, Aziraphale is pressing it into himself, recreating the feeling as best he can. Beneath all the poor timing and shock and hurt from their fight and fallout, I think it's fair to say that it was something he enjoyed. Something he doesn't think he should enjoy, something that Feels Good that he only allows himself to indulge in when completely alone.

Remember, Aziraphale's idea of love is Jane Austen and gentleness and courtship and fantasy. If he'd ever even considered kissing an option, it might have been gentle pecks, cheek kisses, forehead kiss, hand kisses. Soft, safe, chaste affection.

Crowley's kiss turns all of that on its head. He introduces physical intimacy in a very real, very messy, very human way that I don't think Aziraphale ever even considered could apply to them. Considering what other angels are like and what they look down on, even Aziraphale's Jane Austen fantasies probably would have been considered taboo.

So for their first kiss to be rough and desperate and passionate in the way it was, of course he was confused and in shock. It was deeply physical, and as overwhelming and awful as it was in the moment, it Felt Good. Enough that he grasped at Crowley and kissed back, if only just for a moment, before stopping himself. Enough that he actively pressed it into his lips afterwards, in private, to remember.

I adore how Neil has decided to evolve these characters past the first book/season. More so in this season, Aziraphale and Crowley have both become such interesting allegories for queer people on either side of the spectrum of toxic religion. Aziraphale in particular obviously, because he is the side that so desperately wants to believe, to make a difference, and to unlearn all of the propaganda he's been fed over such a long time. Just like so much of organised religion, there is so much that he is told, time and time again, that he should not want, that he is silly or stupid or outright wrong for wanting. It reminds me so much of the severe Catholic guilt one might feel for wanting/engaging in sex for the first time, and the stigma of being queer layered on top of that.

What is so critical to Aziraphale's character is that he goes on wanting, and more than that, actively pursues. He was convinced to go up against Heaven and Hell and stop all of Armageddon because he wanted to go on listening to music and eating lunch and reading books and enjoying the simple company of the person he cares most deeply for, even if that person is supposed to be the enemy.

All this to say that if angels are as generally asexual/sex-averse as I believe them to be, narratively speaking, it would make sense for Aziraphale to be singular in that regard as well. Mirroring his first experience with food, it would make sense for Crowley to be the one to first introduce this new messy, physical, human dynamic between them, for Aziraphale to hesitate (obviously we are at the Hesitation phase at the moment), and then (eventually) for him to dive in wholeheartedly, to absolutely glut himself on this new thing that Feels Good. It would make sense for his character development to show him overcoming his metaphorical Catholic guilt and pursuing the sexual intimacy most (if not all) of the other angels would scorn.

(I can't help but remember that plot idea Neil described from the unwritten sequel, with Aziraphale in a hotel room trying to watch a full porno by way of the free 2-minute teaser clips so he wasn't technically sinning by paying for it. I so hope this is used in season 3, because gosh, I wonder why Aziraphale would suddenly be so interested in observing human physical intimacy after 6,000 years. Lonely and doing a little surreptitious research there, angel?)

Crowley, on the other hand, is the queer person who has broken free from his toxic religion. He prides himself on being his own person, on their his own side. He doesn't have the hang-ups Aziraphale does. He doesn't worry that he's going to be judged or cast aside for wanting things he's not supposed to. So it only makes sense for him to be the first one to suggest/initiate physical intimacy. It makes sense for him to be the one who "goes too fast" (another fantastic example of this dynamic beginning as early as s1; what is that conversation in the car meant to represent, if not Aziraphale being overwhelmed by the intensity of their relationship, and his fear of succumbing to it when he believes he shouldn't? It's also interesting that this is the first conversation to take place in Soho, just after watching Aziraphale realise he's caught feelings for a demon, with the red glow of lust serving as the backdrop).

Do I think the kiss in and of itself was sexual? No. I think it was a passionate and devastating last-ditch effort on Crowley's part to convey the way he feels for Aziraphale. Not just that he loves him, but that he loves him in the most human way possible. But I do think that the kiss represents how they can move forward from here, and what they might want to explore with each other once they feel free enough to do so.

In Conclusion

I am sure, deep in my bones (unless we are explicitly told otherwise), that this was both of their first kisses no, I'm not counting the gavotte, and that neither of them have ever thought to do anything else physical with the humans while they have been on Earth. Like I said before, they adore the human race and lifestyle in general, but ultimately view them as a separate species altogether, and they seem mostly happy to keep to themselves and each other, unless otherwise necessary. I just can't see either of them being drawn enough to a human to pursue anything close to sex. If Crowley in particular has had anything to do with sex in the context of temptations, I'm positive he would be inciting lust amongst the humans themselves, not involving himself directly. At least not that directly.

So, like every other human experience they've had on Earth, sex is something new that they could explore together, just the two of them, on their own side. A deeply intimate, tangible declaration of their love and everything they've gone through to earn it. A visceral finger to give both Heaven and Hell. A renewed appreciation for their corporations and for each other's. A enjoyable method for immortal beings to simply pass the time in each other's company. A new and exciting way to Feel Good, and all the variations that come with it.

You might agree with this post, or you might not. Whether this is something that is ever addressed or not, it doesn't matter to me. This is a brilliant love story either way, and I genuinely feel so privileged to witness it.

But I just can't find it in myself to imagine, given everything we know about these two characters, that sex isn't an experience they would both consume with wholehearted enthusiasm, curiosity, and profound, ineffable adoration.

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Bonus feature: the very silly notes I made to myself that inspired this post

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pangaeaseas · 5 months ago

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The Problem of Religion in Harry Potter (or, what is Wizard God?)

tl; dr: I wish more hp fics did something with religion and the wizarding world

so to state my credentials up front: I've read a lot of hp fanfiction, a little on the Reformation and religious history--like, I have probably more background knowledge than the average person but I am very emphatically not an expert and have never actually taken a class specifically on any kind of religious history, and I'm an ex-Catholic who did ten ish years of religion classes. There are probably a LOT more people more qualified to talk about this than me but whatever I've never actually seen very much meta written out on this specific issue so I'm giving it a try. (if you have written or read such meta, please send me recs)

ahh the Problem of Religion one of the great unsolved mysteries of the hp world building (similar issues include What the Fuck is Going on with Ireland, How Does the Ministry Actually Work, What is the Population, etc) and I call it 'unsolved' because the fandom has no massively popular solution (like Lordships for the Problem of the Wizengamot) and in general tends to just not think about it, much like JKR originally did. Now IMO she probably intended most wizards to be, like, generically Church of England or whatever without much investment--basically copying the Muggle equivalent whenever it isn't spelled out how the two worlds differ, which is I think a lot of her un-filled-out world building is meant to be. Which. OK. You can do that, but, you know, religion is a very very important aspect of worldbuilding and in my opinion ignoring it and expecting it to be just the same as 1990s Muggle Britain is uninteresting and lazy.

This (wizards are meant to be some kind of Christian and probably Church of England just for simplicity's sake) is evidenced by things like Hogwarts having Christmas and Easter breaks, James and Lily having a Bible quote picked out by Dumbledore on their tombstone, and Draco Malfoy, most emblematically wizard of wizard characters who can be taken as a potential baseline, automatically saying things like 'Good God'. Which, you know, implies that the idea of a single God, and probably the Judaeo-Christian God because that's the same cultural background as the rest of Britain, is taken for granted by wizarding society. It doesn't necessarily imply anything about Draco's or even the Malfoys' personal beliefs, and of course you have other characters saying things like 'Oh my Merlin' and "Morgana" and things like that. Which in my opinion wasn't meant to be indications of some kind of Merlin or Morgana worship but more quirky and fun flavor things of the kind jkr loves to include without thinking out the implications. But you absolutely can take those statements that way--this post is absolutely not meant to dictate how people want to headcanon and I am absolutely here for giving wizards a well thought out pagan or Non-Christian religion, I just don't think that was the author's intent. There's also plenty of other things that imply Wizarding cultural Christianity that I'm not remembering off the top of my head.

And, of course, much better writers than me have extensively discussed all the Christian themes in HP. Of course, themes don't need to affect how people worldbuild in fanfic.

So: with HP canon, we are looking at a society that is probably culturally Christian and probably (key word) intended to be Church of England. But, because JKR wasn't putting much thought into it and basically just took a Chrisitian bedrock of society for granted, the implications of this are not really explored at all. So what I'm interested in is how fandom deals with it.

Mostly, that is...not at all, either taking cultural Christianity in the Wizarding World for granted the way JKR does or by ind of handwaving that wizards have evolved beyond the need for religion and that's just how it is. And that's perfectly fine! Not everyone wants to come up with a full, working, wizard society, and even if they are trying to worldbuild some aspects of wizarding society religion is often ignored, because people don't want to deal with it for often valid reasons (religious trauma, just disinterest, grew up agnostic, not Christian but thinks wizards probably are etc, etc, etc, ) Personally I wish more fics delved into what wizarding religious belief actually is, but to put it bluntly, that's just me. And I have never dealt with religion in my own fics. So don't takethis as judgement at all.

But there are interesting headcanons when people do choose to try and worldbuild religion in HP.

Fom what I've seen, one of the major ways to deal with religion in HP (aside from not dealing with it at all) is to give wizards, often pureblood wizards, some kind of pagan, often Celtic-inspired, religion. And this is quite defensible! Sometimes this is badly executed and/or turned into Death Eater apologia, but the idea of wizards having a different religion is really interesting and a good deal more interesting (IMO of course) than just not mentioning religion at all. Most fics that I've seen don't delve too deeply into, like the actual history and theology of these religions, but there are definitely some that do. (Also if you know any PLEASE send me recs). So if handled well, this is a great way to add some religion worldbuilding in the world of Harry Potter.

However, my personal favorite set of possibilities--obviously I have some personal bias as a history nerd with a long standing if never as deeply researched as I would like to interest in the history of Christianity and as an ex-Catholic--is that, well, we know the statute of secrecy started..when, exactly? 1690. So this much is obviously a result of JKR's Hollywood understanding of witch hunts (a subject for another time and someone far more qualified). For interested wrodlbuilders, we can take this as a guideline at best, as personally I think it would have taken a good deal longer than one year to agree on and implement something like the Statute and I tend to take 1690 as an end date, not a start. I also tend to take the Statue as a largely European phenomenon, at least at first. But, uh, what was happening in Britain at the time..oh, right...the Glorious Revolution....what was happening that created the conditions for the Glorious Revolution...oh, the English Civil War...which was because of...oh yeah, and what was also happening on the continent, maybe it involved, wait, thirty years..oooh, the Thirty Years War...wait weren't there a whole bunch of massive social shifts happening in Europe at this point in time isn't that funny but surely the stature of secrecy could be considered a part of these massive social shifts...all of which was heavily influenced by...you guessed it, the Protestant Reformation.

Wait. So. Maybe, the separation of Wizards from Muggles, at least in Britain, wasn't actually about Muggles hating wizards or wizards hating Muggles. Maybe it was about religion. Now personally I find this ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING. The possibilities, the possibilities...

Wizards had a massive religious civil war that created the blood status system in its modern form? Particular families have wildly different denominations? Excellent. Religion both in terms of level of religiosity and in terms of denomination is a blood status marker? Excellent. Purebloods are all Catholic (what does this do to both Catholic and not Muggleborns?) Excellent. Purebloods are all Puritans? Weird, but if you can pull it off excellent. Purebloods are all one of the wacky new denominations that sprung up after the Reformation and then either died out or conquered the world? Excellent. Pure bloods are all Lutherans who really hated Henry VIII? Excellent. One of my favoirite ways to create a wizarding religion was someone who had most pure bloods follow a denomination that split off from Catholicism in the Great Schism and then a small minority being Catholic, with the worlds splitting around the Reformation. Even the paganism headcanons can be incorporated: the Reformation could conceivably have made it much more difficult to keep practicing wizard paganism causing separation of the worlds.

Personally I would love to see a world that used the history of the Protestant Reformation super well, but it's not the only way to relate a Wizarding religion or a Wizarding religious history. I just wish more people tried to do that at all. Let wizards be religious! Or let them be irreligious but have thought about it, instead of just ignoring religion at all as something that might conceivably have influenced human societies. Maybe Wizarding Britain has state sponsored atheism. Just say that outright!

Another thing I'd like to see more fic doing is theology: how does having magic impact people's religious doctrine? Does every major religion essentially have a wizarding branch with its own theology because magic impacts their view of the world so much, or do most wizards simply follow the majority Muggle religion in their country with no modifications? if so, why? Do some wizards disagree, potentially violently, over how to incorporate magic into their religion? Do some people refuse to use magic because they think it goes against their religion? Etc etc etc you could go on forever. I've seen fic, which randomly enough was about Regulus Black, do this pretty well (or I thought so as a non-Jew) for Judaism, and I'd love it if done with other religions.

Anyway. Now I have to figure out how the hell religion works in the Wizarding Britain of my own headcanon.

#meta #my meta #harry potter #hp #my hp meta #hp meta #religion in hp #hp worldbuilding #hp world #my worldbuilding #headcanon #the Protestant reformation #hp and history #jkr critical #worldbuilding #fanfic advice #hp fanfic #hp fandom #hp fanfic advice

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gimmethatagustd · 18 days ago

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sunday smut book club

The cute librarian at Yoongi's local library hosts an adults-only book club. As a fanfiction smut writer himself, Yoongi is intrigued.

Pairing: Librarian Namjoon x Fanfic writer Yoongi

Rating: Explicit

Genre/Trope: Strangers to lovers, smut, humor, crack

Words: 7,150

Content Warning: Yoongi writes BTS fanfic and BTS consists of only the vocal line, they're both idiots lol, super meta, somewhat difficult conversations about sexuality, anal sex, anal fingering, rimming

A/N: This is dedicated to that one time Yoongi highkey implied that he wrote queer fanfic, and to all the fanfic writers in the world doing the devil's work 🙏🏽 god bless. Also, Sunday Smut Book Club is a real thing at a bookstore near where I live. I feel like I should go one day 👀

Disclaimer: Yoong's character is on the ace spectrum. This depiction of asexuality isn't representative of all asexual people's experiences, so please keep that in mind.

୨୧┈┈┈୨୧

SUNDAY SMUT BOOK CLUB

NAMSAN PUBLIC LIBRARY

SUNDAYS AT 3:30 PM

୨୧┈┈┈୨୧

The flyer is unexpected, to say the least. No frills, yet hardly discreet, it’s a plain sheet of white paper with large bold lettering, underneath which is a tactless cartoon clipart of a half-peeled banana propped up against a plump peach.

Yoongi looks over his shoulder to quickly survey the coffee shop. Satisfied that no one is nearby, he rips off the slip of paper at the bottom of the flyer with the QR code – presumably for details about the club and how to get there.

Yongsan-gu isn’t far, and Yoongi has enjoyed visiting Namson Park, even going to the library a few times in college. It’s scenic and gorgeous in warm weather when the flowers bloom, and it’s nice enough to sit outside on the unique furniture and architectural structures. Yoongi thinks he remembers Hoseok mentioning something about attending a few creative writing workshops there as a teen.

Needless to say, it’s not the type of place Yoongi expects to host a smut book club. He’s intrigued nonetheless. How could he not be? He’s just spent the last two hours working on his newest chaptered fanfiction – if one can call staring at a blank document while trying to decide how to begin the first smut scene of a story “working”.

Yoongi thinks so, and so do his Twitter moots, thank you very much.

Folding the slip of paper, Yoongi tucks it into the pocket on the back of his phone case for safekeeping and steps out of the dimly lit cafe into the sunny spring day.

Tomorrow is Sunday. Yoongi promised himself that he would finish the newest chapter of his fic by the end of the day, but he’s wondering if now he should hold off until he joins this odd book club. Perhaps reading smutty, published novels will help Yoongi find the inspiration he needs to write the smut scene that has been giving him hell for an entire week.

The thing is, Yoongi doesn’t particularly enjoy sex. It’s a bit gross, really, if you think about it. In theory, sweaty bodies smashing together to exchange fluids and possibly love sounds attractive. Yoongi loves reading a good smut scene and has even gotten off on some – who hasn’t? But the moment he’s presented with the opportunity for real sex, he usually thinks he’d rather read about it instead.

Not having sex doesn’t bother Yoongi much, but not being interested in it certainly makes writing about it a lot more difficult.

Yoongi doesn’t bother touching his fic for the rest of the day.

Even once he’s back at his apartment, he puts his restless energy toward tidying up before Hoseok comes over. It doesn’t take long, though Yoongi can feel himself stretching it out, stalling, so he doesn’t have to think about his fic until the very last minute when Hoseok is buzzing to be let in.

“I am so pissed off,” Hoseok huffs as he stomps through the front door and kicks off his shoes.

Yoongi grabs Hoseok’s backpack before it slips off his shoulder and holds it until he hangs up his jacket. Hoseok comes with a certain energy that is typically positive, but when stormy, it can sweep through like a tornado.

Today, his complaints are whines rather than the anger he claims he has.

“What happened?” Yoongi asks, following Hoseok into the living room as though he’s the guest and not the other way around.

“Didn’t you see? Taehyung went live for five seconds. Literally five seconds while I was getting off the bus, and I missed it.”

With a roll of his eyes, Yoongi flops onto the couch while Hoseok gets comfortable sitting on pillows on the floor at the coffee table. He’s already pulling his laptop out, only pausing when he notices the Turtle Chips Yoongi put out for a snack.

“You can watch it later,” Yoongi points out, only to be hit with a chip in the middle of his forehead.

“Watching it later doesn’t feel the same!”

“He couldn’t possibly have done anything in five seconds.”

Turning around, Hoseok glares at Yoongi. “He showed his forehead. Which is best when seen live.”

Hoseok isn’t wrong, but Yoongi has tried to force himself not to obsess over consuming BTS content immediately anymore. He’s a working adult; he can barely keep up with watering his plants, let alone knowing when Kim Taehyung is live on Weverse.

Jungkook, though…

Yoongi makes time for Jungkook.

“What are you gonna work on? That Jinkook hockey AU?” Hoseok asks between chomping on chips.

With a loud sigh, Yoongi turns on the couch so he can lie down while watching over Hoseok’s shoulder at his Vmin urban fantasy slow burn. Hoseok is a fic writing machine. He’s already at 30k, and they haven’t even fucked yet.

“I never want to write fic ever again. It’s too hard,” Yoongi laments.

Hoseok leans his head back so he can look Yoongi in the eyes. He’s smiling, of course, because he thinks Yoongi is full of shit.

Yoongi is full of shit.

“You wouldn’t even know what to do with your life if you didn’t write fic. What hobby would you do instead? Hmm? Work out?”

Snorting, Yoongi flops onto his back and stares up at the ceiling. His Jinkook hockey AU barely has any hits, anyway. Maybe no one would care if he didn’t finish it.

“I wish I could ovulate.”

Hoseok coughs hard enough that Yoongi feels it in his chest.

“Excuse me? You what?”

“If I could ovulate, I’d get horny from my hormones, and then I’d be able to write this smut scene,” Yoongi explains simply.

“So you wish you were an omega. Guess what, friend. You are.”

Hoseok doesn’t even care when Yoongi smacks him in the back of the head, demanding he take the comment back. Undeterred, he cackles and types away on his fic.

“I would be an alpha. I don’t know what you’re talking about,” Yoongi grumbles, primarily to himself because Hoseok has decided to take control of the Bluetooth speakers to play his favorite fic writing playlist.

Tonight, Yoongi will beta the chapter Hoseok is writing. Tomorrow, he’ll focus on forcing himself to finish the stupid smut scene.

Everything will be fine.

Yoongi is so concerned about his fic as he travels to Sunday Smut Book Club that he forgets he doesn’t even own the book they’re reading, nor has he read it. Honestly, he can barely remember what book the flyer said they’d discuss this month.

In reality, it isn’t an issue. Yoongi is sure plenty of new people have joined the club in the middle of a book. He’s a fast reader, so catching up won’t be much of an issue. Still, he feels weird walking into the meeting room on the third floor of the library empty-handed, aside from his writing journal and a pen tucked behind his ear.

Luckily, Yoongi arrives early, so there’s no one else in the room except one man sitting at a round table with a thick hardcover book and an open notebook. His dark hair falls in his face, obscuring his features, though Yoongi can tell that the man is striking just from what he can see.

As a writer, Yoongi enjoys people-watching, which allows him to create stories and imagine characters for later use. Based on the man's broad frame and how he hunches over with his forearms on the table, Yoongi thinks he must be very tall. He wears a white buttoned shirt with the sleeves folded and pushed to his elbows, exposing tan skin. When the man shifts in his seat, Yoongi catches sight of a library ID badge clipped to a belt loop of his black slacks.

Yoongi should say something. This is clearly one of the librarians and most likely the one leading the book club. Yet he can’t make a sound or move from the doorway. He should have brought Hoseok with him.

Humming to himself, the librarian thumbs at the cap of his ink pen while he reads what’s written in the notebook, flicking the pen repeatedly until the cap breaks off.

“Oh shit,” the librarian curses. The small piece of plastic flies across the room, forever lost to the dark carpet that matches its color.

Standing up, likely to go search for the broken cap, the librarian finally notices Yoongi hovering in the doorway.

“Oh shit,” he repeats, dropping the pen so it clatters on the table next to the notebook. “Sorry, do you need something?”

Put on the spot, Yoongi takes a half-step backward. The librarian looks confused, making Yoongi feel like he shouldn’t be here. Did he get the room number wrong?

“I’m here for the book club?” Yoongi squeaks out and is absolutely appalled by how his voice cracks. How embarrassing. He’s a grown man, and he can’t even say the word smut out loud to a librarian.

The librarian is gorgeous, which doesn’t help Yoongi’s sudden stage fright. His sharp eyes grow and round out in confusion, and his tan cheeks brighten with a dusty rose undertone, though Yoongi doesn’t know what he has to be embarrassed about. It was only a pen cap.

“The book club? Oh! The Sunday Smut Book Club!” The librarian claps his hands together, making Yoongi flinch. “I’m so sorry, but that book club doesn’t start until next week.”

Given how winded he feels, Yoongi might as well be the ink pen cap flung across the room. Of course, he worked himself up to come to this event and skipped out on writing his fic, only to get the date wrong.

“Well, okay,” Yoongi says slowly, avoiding the librarian’s gaze to examine the room instead. He’s not sure what to do now.

“There’s another book club in about two hours if you want to stick around. It’s about queer literature.”

“Are you leading that one?” Yoongi asks and immediately regrets how unintentionally flirtatious the question sounds when the librarian’s face turns pinker.

“I am,” the librarian confirms with a slight bow of his head, “Kim Namjoon. It’s nice to meet you…”

“Min Yoongi.

“It’s nice to meet you, Yoongi-ssi.”

Internally, Yoongi is considering how good a meet-cute fic this would be. A smut book club is creative, he supposes. It's unconventional for a public library, he figures. Meeting a hot librarian is cliche, but cliches are entertaining for a reason. If this was one of Yoongi’s Jinkook fics, he would have written Seokjin immediately laying his charm on a flustered Jungkook who keeps fiddling with his glasses and giggling at Seokjin’s stupid jokes.

It's too bad real life isn’t as charming. Instead, Yoongi sits woodenly beside Namjoon as he shows Yoongi the list of novels he’s considering for the queer book club.

“Some of them aren’t explicitly queer, but there are queer themes or perhaps are written by authors who were presumed to have been straight or in the closet,” Namjoon explains with his chin in his hand. “Sad, really. If I wrote a great novel and historians erased my queerness from it after I died, I’d haunt everyone.”

To be fair, some of the novels do look interesting. Yoongi takes a moment to scribble down the titles and authors in his journal, keenly aware of Namjoon watching him flip through pages filled with story notes before he can find a blank one.

"So, are you a writer?” When Namjoon smiles, his cheeks dimple. Yoongi feels heat creep up his neck like needle pricks.

"Umm... yes?"

"Cool! What stories do you write?"

Yoongi swallows. "I, uh, I write... a lot of different things."

“Oh, you must be a great writer to have a diverse portfolio!” Namjoon eagerly leans toward Yoongi. “What kind of things?”

Do not say fanfiction do not say fanfiction do not say fanfiction do not say–

“I write gay fanfiction!” Yoongi blurts out.

This is not how the story is supposed to go. It’s all wrong. Yoongi's face is hot, and his heart is in his throat, but worst of all, Namjoon is silent.

“I know it’s weird, and I normally don’t–”

“I love that!” Namjoon beams, his warm eyes crinkled at the corners from smiling. “What fandom do you write for?”

Do not say BTS do not say BTS do not say BTS do not say–

“Uh, BTS…”

What the fuck about this guy is making Yoongi spill all his secrets? Most of his closest friends don’t even know he writes fic.

Yoongi expects the judgment that typically comes after admitting to writing real-person fiction, but Namjoon surprises him again.

“That’s really cool,” Namjoon says with another dimpled smile. “I used to read fanfiction, though I haven’t in a long time. I spend most of my time with literature that no one is writing fanfiction about.”

“I don’t know, I’m sure there’s some super gay dead dove based on ‘The Cask of Amontillado,’” Yoongi says with a laugh.

“The MCD warning would be a terrible spoiler.”

“Bury your gays, literally.”

Namjoon barks a laugh at such a terribly accurate joke, pretending to wipe tears from his eyes. He seems well-versed in fandom culture, though Yoongi shouldn’t be surprised. Plenty of published novels can barely hold a candle to the fanfiction Yoongi has read over the years.

By the time the first member of the queer book club shows up, Yoongi has already helped Namjoon recover the password to his old AO3 account and sent him a few fics he hopes Namjoon will like. It feels good to share his hobby with someone new, even if Namjoon doesn’t know much about BTS.

“Good fiction is good fiction,” Namjoon had said simply, and it made Yoongi happy to remember that there are cool people in the world. He shouldn’t have been surprised that he’d find such a person at the library.

Most people would enjoy waking up to the love of their lives every morning. Unfortunately, Jungkook doesn’t know that Yoongi exists, so Yoongi has the second best thing to wake up to:

[AO3] Comment on hat trick beauty namu94 left the following comment on hat trick beauty : I binged this until 4 AM despite needing to get up at 7 AM. I feel like I’m dying, but it was positively worth it. The tension was so wonderfully unbearable that I chewed through my mattress. Thank you for sharing your secret with me ;)

If Namjoon chewed through his mattress after reading Yoongi’s fic, then Yoongi eats his entire mattress after reading Namjoon's comment on it. He probably rereads the comment fifteen times throughout the duration of getting ready in the morning, holding his phone in one hand while he struggles to put on his clothes and brush his teeth with the other.

Yoongi is pretty sure every AO3 writer obsesses over sweet comments; who wouldn’t?

But perhaps he’s overdoing it when he’s at work and still can’t close out of AO3, now rereading the chapter to imagine what it may have been like for Namjoon to read it for the first time.

“Getting a little Monday morning smut in?” Hoseok’s sudden presence over Yoongi’s shoulder startles him in his seat.

“What!”

Yoongi quickly exits out of the internet browser and deflates when he realizes he didn’t save his progress on the project edits he was working on for his boss.

“Don’t try to hide from me as if I’m not in the fandom trenches with you all the time,” Hoseok chastises.

Finding out that his coworker is Army was probably the coolest thing to happen in Yoongi’s professional life. Finding out that his coworker also writes fanfiction was undoubtedly the greatest thing to happen in Yoongi’s professional life – and maybe in his personal life, too.

Unfortunately, it means Hoseok is always on his case.

“I sent Namjoon ‘hat trick beauty’ after I told him I’m having a hard time with the…” Yoongi looks around the office to see if his coworkers are paying attention to him before whispering, “ Smut .”

Yoongi has managed to delay the smut in his fic and convinced himself that it was so he didn’t sacrifice the plot, rather than the truth that he just doesn’t know what to do about the scene.

It has taken Yoongi over a month to work up the courage to show Namjoon his writing, and now he clings to every piece of feedback Namjoon gives him. Part of him wonders if Namjoon is simply being nice.

However, it’s doubtful that Namjoon’s praise is a lie. His kindness seems to grow exponentially with every book club meeting– for the Queer Book Club and Sunday Smut Book Club, since Yoongi regularly attends both now on alternating weekends, not because of Namjoon, of course. Yoongi attends both because he is passionate about literature and learning smut techniques.

Of course.

“That’s a weird way to woo your librarian crush.”

“That’s, that’s not what I’m doing.” Hoseok raises his eyebrows as Yoongi sputters.

He’s not trying to woo Namjoon, right? Yoongi doesn’t even know how to woo anyone; he’s not sure he’s ever wanted to.

“Maybe it should be what you’re doing. You said writing smut would be easier if you were horny, right?”

“Hobah!” Yoongi hisses, swatting at Hoseok, who nimbly dodges each blow. “We’re at work.”

“Oh, hush. No one is paying attention to us.” Hoseok rests his butt against Yoongi’s desk and waves his hand. "As I was saying, maybe Namjoon can give you a little inspiration, if you get what I mean.”

“This is all very presumptuous. We’re talking as if Namjoon even… likes me or whatever…” Yoongi cringes, scrunching his nose.

With a loud sigh, Hoseok pushes himself off Yoongi’s desk. He claps his hand over Yoongi’s shoulder, giving him a light squeeze.

“You’re adorable. Who wouldn’t like you?”

It sounds easy when Hoseok says it, but Yoongi watches him walk to his desk with a sinking feeling in his stomach. It’s far more complicated than just two people liking each other. Other people may find a crush exciting, but it stresses Yoongi out.

With a sigh, Yoongi returns his focus to his work and tries to push all thoughts of fanfiction and Namjoon to the back of his mind.

The thing is, fanfiction and Namjoon are the two most exciting aspects of Yoongi’s life at the moment, so ignoring both is virtually impossible—especially when, by the end of the week, Yoongi is back on the bus to the Namsan Public Library.

Yoongi feels like he’s quickly descending into madness the closer the bus gets to the dreaded destination. It doesn’t help that Hoseok is in his ears, attempting to give him a pep talk over the phone.

“You just need to remember that most people like to fuck.”

Snorting, Yoongi adjusts his wireless earbuds when the bus hits a bump in the road.

“What? I’m serious! A lot of people don’t get caught up in the logistics, you know? If they want to pursue someone, and it’s consensual, then why not? That’s what PWPs are. Life doesn’t need a plot, hyung. It can be all porn.”

“I know all this. It just sounds fake,” Yoongi says with a huff as he prepares to get off the bus at the next stop.

Yoongi is a plot guy. His life is tagged “Eventual Smut,” and his readers are 50 chapters deep without even a chaste kiss.

He’s positive he could never force himself to hook up with a stranger. This little plan he’s managed to let Hoseok convince him to do with Namjoon, who is hardly more than an acquaintance, is already going against everything that feels natural.

The stuff Yoongi does for his art – and silly crushes, apparently.

Arriving early, Yoongi knows to head to the back of the library on the first floor, where the librarians’ offices are. Namjoon’s is conveniently located at the end of a long hallway Yoongi isn’t supposed to go down. The other librarians recognize him at this point, considering how many Sunday afternoons he has spent distracting Namjoon from his job, so they don’t comment when Yoongi ducks his head and slips through the “Employees Only” door.

Namjoon sits at his desk like Yoongi expects, with at least a dozen books stacked around him. He has to lift his head to peer over a stack when Yoongi slowly closes the door behind him.

“Hi, you’re early!” Namjoon beams with crinkled eyes and dimpled cheeks that make Yoongi’s stomach flutter. Namjoon is handsome and sweet; Yoongi doesn’t need to be a sexual being to know that.

“Is that okay?” Yoongi asks the floor as he pulls the sleeves of his thin sweater over his knuckles. He’s so nervous that sweat accumulates in his armpits.

“Of course, hyung,” Namjoon says softly. “Work is always more enjoyable when you’re around.”

Somewhat comforted by Namjoon’s reassurance, Yoongi takes a deep breath and walks up to Namjoon’s desk. He grips the edge and tries to calm his frantic heart. It’s nearly impossible. There’s Namjoon in his librarian taupe knit cardigan with the sleeves rolled up to show off tan forearms and hair neatly parted to frame his face. He’s scholarly-cute. Yoongi might not experience sexual attraction, but Namjoon can intellectually stimulate him – and that’s even better.

When Yoongi remains silent, Namjoon’s kind smile morphs into a frown.

“Are you okay–”

“Will you fuck me?”

The blush of pink across Namjoon’s cheeks and the bright sheen in his eyes make Yoongi consider that, perhaps, he might not hate this as much as he thought he would. That’s assuming Namjoon accepts his proposition rather than kick him out for being a pervert.

Shit, he sounds like a pervert, doesn’t he? How do other people do this without wanting the ground to open up and swallow them whole from embarrassment?

“Um, for literature’s sake?” Yoongi tacks onto his initial request when Namjoon doesn’t respond. “Actually, this is really stupid, oh god. I’m,” Yoongi looks around the room to keep his eyes away from Namjoon’s face. “I’m… just gonna leave… now…”

Namjoon grabs Yoongi’s forearm when he turns to leave, knocking a stack of books onto the floor. The loud crash makes both men jump, though Namjoon uses the momentum to stand up at his desk.

“I thought you weren’t into… that?” Namjoon asks slowly. He speaks like he’s not sure how to express his thoughts. Yoongi thinks he’s close enough.

“I’m not…”

The thing is, Hoseok was sort of correct, though Yoongi doesn’t want to admit it. Sometimes, Yoongi uses porn to help him write smut scenes when he can’t conjure up the ideas himself. Real sex, he supposes, is the best form of research – even if Yoongi normally avoids it.

“Then why?” There’s another silent question beneath the spoken one: Why me?

Yoongi locks eyes with Namjoon and realizes how endeared he is by the discomfort they’re both holding, each for a different reason. With faces flushed with embarrassment and eyes bright with uncertainty, Yoongi and Namjoon complement each other well.

“Hobi said it could help me get the inspiration I need to write the smut for ‘hat trick beauty,’” Yoongi trails off, his eyebrows furrowed in irritation when laughter bursts from Namjoon.

“Wait, you’re serious? Really?” Namjoon’s fingers slip from Yoongi’s forearm when Yoongi tugs out of his grasp.

“Don’t laugh at me.”

Namjoon’s expression drops. “I’m sorry.”

Yoongi hasn’t ever asked someone to fuck him before. It’s somewhat embarrassing to be laughed in the face over it, and it’s definitely demoralizing.

Yoongi pulls at his sleeves with a sigh, forcing sweater paws as if to cover more of himself from the awkwardness.

“Hyung, really, please talk to me,” Namjoon gently encourages.

Namjoon’s arm falls to his side, but he moves from behind his desk to stand in front of Yoongi on the other side. The distance is respectful, yet Yoongi wants him closer.

“It seems like a bad idea to force yourself to do something you don’t like simply because it might inspire you.”

“I just want to try it,” Yoongi explains, still avoiding Namjoon’s gaze. “Other people can hook up with strangers, so why can’t I? It doesn’t seem like it should be a big deal.”

Namjoon frowns. “That’s not how sexuality works.”

“I don’t care. I think it’s all stupid.”

Yoongi knows he sounds ridiculous without needing to see Namjoon’s amused look. He’s merely being honest; being so different from what most of society thinks people should be like can sometimes be frustrating. It makes life difficult in ways other people just don’t understand.

Namjoon is hot. He’s tall and muscular, with pecs that make his shirts stretch and thighs that threaten to rip his pants. He’s well-read and eloquent. What more could a person want in a man? Yet here is Yoongi, chewing on his bottom lip as he finally forces himself to look Namjoon in the eyes, at war with himself over what he’s doing.

“You seem to be overthinking the scene and this,” Namjoon suggests with a sweep of his hand between their bodies. “This isn’t me saying I wouldn’t enjoy being with you, hyung. My answer would be an easy ‘yes’ if it weren’t for the circumstances.”

Heat floods Yoongi’s face when Namjoon’s voice lowers, his tone making Yoongi’s stomach flip. Yoongi may not experience attraction like most people he knows, but his body will react to the right stimulus.

“I like you,” Yoongi whispers, suddenly aware of how closely he stands next to Namjoon. He can smell Namjoon’s cologne, which is clean and somehow sensual, with notes of vanilla and sandalwood.

“I like you, too,” Namjoon admits his feelings more confidently than Yoongi had.

“So… that’s supposed to be enough, right?”

With a small smile, Namjoon shrugs.

“It’s supposed to be whatever you want it to be, I guess? Sexuality is a spectrum, hyung. It’s okay if sometimes you feel one way and other times you feel differently. If you want to try something new, that’s okay, too.”

If Yoongi were impulsive and more sure of himself than he is, he would have kissed Namjoon for being so smart and reasonable.

“I guess being… intimate is easier when it’s on my own terms.”

Namjoon hums in understanding.

“You have agency. It doesn’t feel like you’re being forced or that it’s an expectation.”

Namjoon’s reassurance gives Yoongi the courage he needs. After this, no one will be able to say that Yoongi isn’t dedicated to his craft.

“Well, let’s get to it,” Yoongi announces with his head held high.

Namjoon’s eyes sparkle with mirth, but he holds his laughter in when he asks, “Would you like a pen and paper to take notes?”

“Shut up; that’s not funny.”

It is, though, and Yoongi can’t help but grin when Namjoon reaches across his desk to grab a little pack of sticky notes and an ink pen. Perhaps if Yoongi’s life was a fic, it would be crack.

Despite Namjoon’s joke, the atmosphere in the room thickens with tension. Yoongi may be the only one who senses it. Namjoon seems relaxed, still smiling, even as his sharp eyes roam over Yoongi’s frame. He and Yoongi have both said so much and so little.

“Can I kiss you?” Namjoon asks as he steps forward, shortening the distance between them and making every hopeless romantic reading the fic Yoongi’s writing in his head swoon.

How could a strange meet-cute have worked in real life?

Yoongi doesn’t think his life would be a cliche fic, but if it could, he’d want it to be just as charming as it is predictable – but in a comforting kind of way, not boring. He’d want his life to be the kind of fic you read when you want something that you know won’t hurt you because every path is already paved, lit up by neon lights that tell you to keep going, that everything is going to be okay.

Yoongi loves fics like those. They feel how Namjoon’s hands feel when he holds the small of Yoongi’s back and cradles the side of his face as he pulls him into a kiss. Namjoon is sure and slow as he eases Yoongi into a deeper kiss so their lips and tongues can move in a familiar dance, even if this is the first time they’ve danced it together.

Maybe their relationship is a fast burn, Yoongi thinks as Namjoon slips his hand beneath his sweater to slide his fingertips across his waist.

For some reason, it doesn’t feel rushed with Namjoon. It isn’t hot and heavy, bodies smashing against bodies. It’s just Namjoon, slow and patient, hooking his arm beneath Yoongi’s thighs and gently lifting him onto the edge of Namjoon’s desk.

“This is where I usually stop writing,” Yoongi whispers against Namjoon’s soft lips. He wishes he could speak things into existence rather than write them. It doesn’t seem fair that there’s a disconnect between his brain and body.

Namjoon doesn’t get angry. He doesn’t even seem disappointed when he asks, “Do you want to stop?”

Yoongi wants, and yet he also doesn’t. It means the same thing both ways.

“No.”

“Are you sure?”

Yoongi bites Namjoon’s bottom lip, not to be sexy, but to shut him up. It makes Namjoon moan anyway, and Yoongi remembers that even though he doesn’t like sex, he’s always been pretty decent at it.

Funny how life works.

“How do you want to do this?” Namjoon pulls away to monitor Yoongi’s expression.

“I don’t like being naked,” Yoongi states curtly, still expecting judgment that will never come.

Namjoon rubs along Yoongi’s bare waist with his thumbs and firmly nods.

“Clothes on; got it. Anything else?”

The rest is embarrassing, but Yoongi knows he has to communicate his needs if he wants this to be a positive experience. He has very little practice speaking up. No one has ever asked him these questions, and his previous partners certainly weren’t concerned with making sure Yoongi was comfortable. Sex was always a point of contention and typically a means to an end.

“I, um, have a hard time relaxing. And then I get distracted.” Despite how hotly his face burns, Yoongi tries to keep his tone casual and unbothered.

“Proper foreplay; that would have been a given,” Namjoon says with a wink, making Yoongi roll his eyes to hide further embarrassment. “Is that all?”

It’s hard to be self-reflective when Yoongi knows he’s moments away from having sex with his relatively new friend in the library after not letting another person intimately touch him in at least two years.

Likely noticing that Yoongi is quickly tumbling into overthinking, Namjoon gently squeezes his waist and lifts him off the desk.

“I’m sure this might be difficult for you to understand,” Namjoon says as he slowly turns Yoongi around to face his desk, “But I wanted you the moment I saw you, hyung.”

Yoongi is thankful that Namjoon is standing behind him so he doesn’t have to suffer from being too shy to look at him. It is difficult to understand.

“I don’t know what to say to that,” Yoongi admits truthfully. He feels silly saying so, but his heart is light when Namjoon chuckles, and the sound vibrates against his back through Namjoon’s chest.

“You don’t have to say anything. I just wanted to express my attraction to you so you know that this isn’t just me doing you a favor.”

Closing his eyes, Yoongi shakily exhales when Namjoon presses him against the desk and rests his chin on his shoulder.

Namjoon tilts his head slightly. When he speaks, his lips brush the side of Yoongi’s neck.

“Can I eat you out?”

“Oh, uh, yeah.”

Yoongi is breathless already, and it makes him cringe. He doesn’t like how sex makes him feel vulnerable and delicate.

“Cool,” Namjoon responds with a quick kiss to Yoongi’s neck before he gets on his knees behind him.

There’s something about how casual Namjoon is as he reaches up to unbutton Yoongi’s jeans and pulls them down until they rest just below his ass — only removing his clothes enough to make the important parts accessible. Namjoon’s behavior minimizes the severity of the moment. He makes sure Yoongi isn’t more exposed than he needs to be and doesn’t make a fuss over what they’re about to do.

It’s nice. It keeps Yoongi from making this out to be a bigger deal than it needs to be and keeps him out of his own head.

It’s difficult for Yoongi to move since his jeans are pulled to the middle of his thighs. Luckily, Namjoon is fully capable of handling Yoongi on his own. He presses on Yoongi’s back to guide him forward until he’s bent at his waist over the edge of the desk. The position forces Yoongi to put his ass on display.

Satisfied, Namjoon runs his hands up Yoongi’s thighs until he reaches his ass and squeezes each cheek in his hands.

“Did you prep before you came?”

Of course, Yoongi did. He hasn’t had sex in years, and he rarely uses toys when he masturbates, which already isn’t a frequent occurrence. But Yoongi can’t tell Namjoon any of this, though not for a lack of trying. As Yoongi opens his mouth to respond, Namjoon runs his flattened tongue in one quick swipe across Yoongi’s rim.

Being vocal feels vulnerable to Yoongi. He doesn’t like expressing his pleasure during sex; it feels embarrassing, maybe even a bit emasculating, though he doesn’t know why he reacts this way. Rather than curse or moan, Yoongi lets out a quiet hiss through his clamped teeth and grabs onto the edge of the desk to hold himself in place.

When writing fanfic, Yoongi often fluctuates between descriptive smut and smut that glosses over the details for something more vague. It all depends on his mood and how easily he feels like the words come out of him.

Can Yoongi imagine it? Or does he struggle to conjure the image vividly enough to write it down in a way his readers will like?

Can Yoongi write a smut scene that accurately (and sexily) portrays the way Namjoon grips his asscheeks, gently hooking his thumbs in his hole to spread him open as he languidly flicks and swirls his tongue inside of him? Or would Yoongi skip over it, instead focusing on the heat that coils in his stomach when Namjoon worships him with his lips, each moan a quiet declaration of admiration spoken against his wet, flushed skin?

On the verge of overthinking, Yoongi is relieved when Namjoon switches up the foreplay. He hears the smacking sound of Namjoon’s lips and then feels two spit-slicked fingers slip inside him.

“Can you reach the top drawer?” Namjoon’s voice is rough and raw, gravelly in sound, different from the gentle, intentional way he normally speaks.

Nodding and lifting up on his tiptoes, Yoongi reaches forward to fumble with the drawer handle. Namjoon’s fingers follow the movement, slowly easing in and out of Yoongi but never hitting the spot Yoongi knows he needs to hit if he wants this to be worth it.

“There should be a little bottle of lube.”

Yoongi snorts when his fingers bump into the travel-size bottle. How convenient.

“Why do you have this here?”

Namjoon squeezes Yoongi’s thigh and rakes his blunt nails over the soft skin just hard enough to make it tingle.

“I don’t know. Maybe I thought about this happening,” Namjoon offers, probably with a shrug, but Yoongi doesn’t see him, just passes the lube behind him. “Not exactly like this, but…”

Nothing more needs to be said.

Namjoon makes quick work lubing Yoongi up, massaging his rim and walls with confident strokes even after fumbling with the bottle. Yoongi is pretty sure other people like drawn-out sex that optimizes pleasure, but he prefers sex that is straightforward. That’s where all the fluff additions come in. If he gets the main points of sex down, kissing, fingering, and dick-in-ass, then the other stuff can be added later.

So Yoongi is thankful when Namjoon stands up behind him without making a fuss – no declarations of how nice Yoongi’s ass is, how his hole sucks in Namjoon’s fingers with ease, how pretty Yoongi’s dripping, neglected cock is.

It’s all silliness in real life, too porn-y for Yoongi’s liking.

“Are you ready?” Namjoon asks against the curve of Yoongi’s shoulder as he pulls his wallet from his back pocket to retrieve a condom. Again, how convenient. Do sexual people actually carry lube and condoms around? Is it just Yoongi who is perpetually unprepared?

“Yeah,” Yoongi pants, already feeling like he’s tipping over the edge. He can’t remember the last time he had such a thorough prepping, and it’s making him sweat. “Wait – I need to look at your dick. For the literature.”

Namjoon throws his head back in bewildered laughter as Yoongi twists around to get a good look at what is honestly a monster between Namjoon’s legs. Still wearing all his clothes, Namjoon has his pants unzipped and pushed down his hips just enough to pull his cock out. File this away under the “Has a Big Dick” tag on AO3, good lord.

Yoongi must make a face because Namjoon’s laughter starts up again. Namjoon’s cock bobs from the shake that ripples through his body with each chuckle.

“Why are you looking at me like that?” Namjoon covers his cock with his hands. “You’re making me feel self-conscious.”

“You have a big dick, okay. I’m just thinking about how uncomfortable it will be to sit at my desk to write later.”

Curling both lips into his mouth and looking up at the ceiling to stop himself from laughing, Namjoon exhales loudly through his nose.

“I must say, I haven’t gotten anything like that before.”

Waving the comment away, Yoongi turns back around and leans forward with his forearms on the desk.

“Come on. Queer Book Club is going to start soon.”

“Of course, Yoongi-ssi.”

Yoongi does his best not to think too hard when Namjoon slowly thrusts inside him. He tries to focus his attention on the sensations he feels: the stretch of Namjoon’s thick cock opening Yoongi up, the press of Namjoon’s fingertips to Yoongi’s skin where Namjoon grips his hip bones to use as leverage when he pulls back and thrusts again, the continuous prodding of his prostate that will eventually turn into a build-up of pleasure.

It’s easier than Yoongi expects. He keeps his eyes closed and lets his body rock against the desk, making himself slack in Namjoon’s hold. There’s no need to do anything more; Namjoon takes over.

“Fuck, you feel so good, so tight,” Namjoon grunts quietly.

Somehow, it feels like Namjoon knows not to drag this out. He goes hard and fast, fucking Yoongi with enough force that more books fall off the desk. Yoongi strongly hopes no one comes in to investigate the racket they’re making. They may as well be tearing the whole library down.

The sex is objectively good; Yoongi knows that. He can feel his orgasm quickly approaching, partially because he hasn’t had sex in so long and also because Namjoon is good at what he does. The thing is, it isn’t mindblowing like Yoongi has always been led to believe sex is. Sometimes he can’t even focus on the literal feeling of sex; he can only tell that it’s doing something to his biology that’s going to make him cum.

Usually, the emotional attachment he has to the person he’s sleeping with is what gives sex meaning to Yoongi – and even then, it isn’t always that important.

Namjoon slides one palm up Yoongi’s back to bunch up his shirt and give himself something to hold onto.

The pull tightens the collar of Yoongi’s t-shirt around his neck. It doesn’t completely cut off his airway, but it applies pressure that makes his breathing shift into shallow gasping. Breathplay isn’t something Yoongi has ever experimented with; strangely, it’s what pushes him over the edge.

Yoongi cums all over the side of the desk with a choking sound that makes Namjoon let go of his shirt.

“I’m so sorry,” Namjoon huffs as he presses one hand on the desk's surface and uses his other to hold Yoongi still. “You should have said something.”

“I’m fine; just hurry up,” Yoongi insists, still winded and trying to catch his breath.

Luckily, Namjoon doesn’t take long to finish. Yoongi nearly squirms away from him by the time Namjoon pulls out, his entire body on edge from the pleasure verging on overstimulation. Overstim is great to write about, but it's annoying to experience in real life, in Yoongi’s opinion.

Writing two orgasms is also annoying, Yoongi thinks as Namjoon throws away the condom, hiding it deep in the trash can, just in case anyone notices it. Simultaneous orgasms are a smut writer’s dream. Yoongi wonders how often it happens in real life. If anyone can accomplish it, he feels like Namjoon could.

Namjoon looks cute with sweaty hair and a pink tint to his tan cheeks. He looks at Yoongi with a strange mix of lust, adoration, and sheepishness when he tucks his cock back in his pants and passes Yoongi a handful of stray napkins to clean up the mess he’s made on the desk.

“This wasn’t well thought-out,” Yoongi mumbles, face burning like a wildfire when he is confronted with his own cum. “I might throw up.”

“It’s natural,” Namjoon laughs.

“It’s gross.”

What’s really gross is the sweet look Namjoon maintains as Yoongi finishes his task and does his best to straighten himself out, double-checking his pants for stains and brushing away his hair from his face. Going to Queer Book Club after this is going to be a disaster. Yoongi considers skipping.

“So, do you feel better?” There’s another question under the surface: Did I do okay?

Kissing isn’t sex, but it’s intimate more often than not and isn’t on Yoongi’s list of his favorite things to do. Despite that, he gets on his tiptoes to kiss Namjoon – a peck that’s quick and easy to back out of and one that grows the grin on Namjoon’s face tenfold.

“It was alright,” Yoongi says with a shrug when he pulls away. “When I have another smut scene to write, I’ll keep you on my list of people to contact for help.”

“Ah, I’m sure you won’t need help anymore. You took notes, didn’t you?”

When Yoongi meets Namjoon’s gaze, he’s met with the dimpled smile he’s become enamored with. This isn’t a good end to a fic, Yoongi thinks as he helps Namjoon clean up his office and prepare for their book club, but that’s okay. This is only the beginning of Yoongi and Namjoon.

#bts fanfic #bts smut #namgi smut #namgi fanfic #namgi au #namjoon x yoongi #gimmethatagustd #sunday smut book club

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thewritingfairy · 20 days ago

Note

Hi! I know you've already made a list of all your favorite authors, but I was wondering which writers are your topmost picks there (series-wise) and why?

‎‧₊˚✧[My favourite tumblr and book authors]✧˚₊‧

Mentioned: 𝜗𝜚 ࣪˖ ִ𐙚 Author's that I love

People want to know my reading opinions~ but as you mentioned I have done this before so I will explain more about my choices then and be more specific in some cases but also leave out some as they don't always have series. I will also add my favourite book series :3 (ofc first it will be full with batfam tag writers.

@acid-ixx - again & again

Reads like a novel (like please teach me how to write so much) and is male reader friendly, I love this for my ‘I do not want gender’ moments and for the simple fact that it's so well written that I could imagine anyone in the Reader's position. Well not everyone but that's because of a few personality quirks, so that's very specific.

@rizzanon - Undoing Fate

I wanted to kiss the screen the first time I read this series. I loved how strong yet well written the Reader is, they are strong but still traumatised as fuck and I love that. I love seeing different trauma responses and how other people write those :3

@nikovraskol - Crackbaby

This story makes me anxious, ready to punch someone and I do not like violence, it makes my skin crawl and completely pulls me into being the Reader. Because I can sort of relate to this Reader with how they react to certain things. Love reading this story when my health is kicking my ass more than thinking of my future.

@mimiiiiiiiiisstuff - i bet on losing dogs

I will be kicking my feet in happiness as I read this every single time. I love me a reader that knows their worth, for them to have meta powers and to be able to seduce. My god, I love it when a character is like that. It can bring me to my knees /j

‎‧₊˚✧

Now for books!!!

Legendborn by Tracy Deonn

begging on my knees for physical copies to come to my local bookstore. Please, I am barely in the first book and this is already one of my favs, I am reading this book slowly as I am currently grieving (I grief yearly near June).

The Poppy War - R.F Kuang

Love this book and author but couldn't finish it, The Poppy Wars is incredibly dark and heavy. It did trigger my fight or flight response to an extent that I mainly try to read it when I'm with someone I trust so that my PTSD is less active. But the story telling, oh my god, I love it. I love the themes of propaganda, classism and how you can learn from it. Because I always try to learn from my books, and I know that when I can finish this book I will love this series with everything.

I have this as an e-book and I just found out the physical books are coming to my home country, so if it will be translated I am buying the physical copies because I am curious how it will translate.

The Hurricane wars - Thea Guanzon

This book I love it, it is a series but it isn't my favourite. More like I would re-read it, I'm having a rough time going through it because of the writing style it's just not as engaging as I thought it would be but that might be because I am in a lot of pain currently and it makes it a bit more difficult to focus and write.

The fact that it's a physical copy does help me with reading it more but books are currently too heavy for me (my chronic pain is just being a bitch and I hold my books with my left hand--)

The hunger games - Suzanne Collins

Do I even have to say anything? The themes are actual and important, the writing is incredible and honestly the books are better and more diverse than the movies. Sue me, but it's true. I do love the casting of Ballad of the Songbirds and Snakes and Sunrise on the Reaping.

The first movies are good as well but I don't really feel like they do the books complete justice. But for the rest amazing.

#☾ thewritingfairy #fic rec #book rec #yandere batfamily #yandere batfam #author rec #appreciation post

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julibf · 8 months ago

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JON WAS PROMISED TO SANSA

So, one of my favorite theories that I have seen floating sometimes is that Jon Snow is actually The prince that was promised to Sansa. The idea is that Lyanna not only asked Ned Stark to protect Jon, but also, asked him to marry his first born daughter to her son, in order to fulfil an important prophecy and that the breaking of this promised is what led for all this pain and sorrow to fall onto House Stark. This would parallel the pact made by Doran Martell promising his older daughter to Viserys Targaryen, both men made promises to marry their daughters to Targaryen princes, yet both failed to fulfill their promises.

What if Jon and Sansa had been betrothed all their lives since their birth? What if this union is very important for the future of Westeros and the Gods are making everything possible for them to be together? This would be a big twist in the end of the story, because the reader usually associates Ned Stark with someone who takes oaths very seriously, yet, having the hero of the story breaking an oath and disgracing himself its kind the story that George likes to write. In A GAME OF THRONES there is a lot of hints that Ned actually broke his promise to Lyanna.

********************** He slept and woke and slept again. He did not know which was more painful, the waking or the sleeping. When he slept, he dreamed: dark disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises. When he woke, there was nothing to do but think, and his waking thoughts were worse than nightmares. (A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV) **************************

Ned keeps on dreaming about broken promises…….

*************************** The thought of Jon filled Ned with a sense of shame, and a sorrow too deep for words. If only he could see the boy again, sit and talk with him … pain shot through his broken leg, beneath the filthy grey plaster of his cast. (A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV) *****************************

In his lasts moments Ned is thinking of Jon and the memories of him bring immense shame and sorrow. Remember, not only he never told Jon about his mother, he also allowed the boy to join the Nights Watch without ever explain to him how truly terrible that place was. I am certain now that Ned Stark broke a very serious promise to his sister…

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The mention of dreams reminded him. "I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad." "And why was that?" Luwin peered through his tube. "It was something to do about Jon, I think." The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams. "Hodor won't go down into the crypts."(A Game of Thrones - Bran VII) ************************************

Again, what Ned had to say to Jon was so important that he came back from the death just to tell Bran. I believe that Bran will finally remember about this dream in the last volume of the books, “A dream of Spring”. One of my favorite moments in A CLASH OF KINGS, is the red comet that crosses the sky during the entire opening of the story. In Sansa’s first chapter she asks one of the knights of the kingsguard what does he thinks the comet purpose. Several Jonsas writers have made metas over this idea.

**************************** The morning of King Joffrey's name day dawned bright and windy, with the long tail of the great comet visible through the high scuttling clouds. Sansa was watching it from her tower window when Ser Arys Oakheart arrived to escort her down to the tourney grounds. "What do you think it means?" she asked him. "Glory to your betrothed," Ser Arys answered at once. "See how it flames across the sky today on His Grace's name day, as if the gods themselves had raised a banner in his honor. The smallfolk have named it King Joffrey's Comet." Doubtless that was what they told Joffrey; Sansa was not so sure. "I've heard servants calling it the Dragon's Tail." "King Joffrey sits where Aegon the Dragon once sat, in the castle built by his son," Ser Arys said. "He is the dragon's heir—and crimson is the color of House Lannister, another sign. This comet is sent to herald Joffrey's ascent to the throne, I have no doubt. It means that he will triumph over his enemies." (A Clash of Kings - Sansa I)

******************************************

We know that Jon is the Dragon Heir, since he is the son of Rhaegar, so what if the comet was meant to him???? There are some other hints too, that looked like foreshadowing in my mind…........

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He grinned. "I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?" "You may not. It is promised to...another." She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone. (The Winds of Winter - Alayne I)

People may think that I am crazy but if you re read the books all over again, paying attention to a small detail, you may start believing this theory too. As I was reading the books again, I started noticing that every single time Sansa’s receives a marriage proposal, the next chapter that follows is a JON SNOW chapter. Isn’t that interesting???? So let me show you.

Right from the beginning we have King Robert arriving at Winterfell and visiting Lyanna Stark tomb in the crypts, there he offers a marriage alliance between House Baratheon and House Stark, with the marriage of Sansa and his son Joffrey Baratheon. This is the only chapter that Sansa will receive a marriage proposal not directly, in this chapter is Ned Stark that receives the proposal since Sansa is only 11 years old in the beginning of the story and her father is her guardian, after that, since Sansa will lose her parents and protectors, the proposals will happen directly to her.

A GAME OF THRONES CHAPTER 4 AND 5

Chapter 4, Eddard I

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"Come south with me, and I'll teach you how to laugh again," the king promised. "You helped me win this damnable throne, now help me hold it. We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late. I have a son. You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done." This offer did surprise him. "Sansa is only eleven." Robert waved an impatient hand. "Old enough for betrothal. The marriage can wait a few years." The king smiled. "Now stand up and say yes, curse you." "Nothing would give me greater pleasure, Your Grace," Ned answered. He hesitated. "These honors are all so unexpected. May I have some time to consider? I need to tell my wife …""Yes, yes, of course, tell Catelyn, sleep on it if you must." The king reached down, clasped Ned by the hand, and pulled him roughly to his feet. "Just don't keep me waiting too long. I am not the most patient of men."…… For a moment Eddard Stark was filled with a terrible sense of foreboding. This was his place, here in the north. He looked at the stone figures all around them, breathed deep in the chill silence of the crypt. He could feel the eyes of the dead. They were all listening, he knew. And winter was coming. (A Game of Thrones, Eddard I)

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What if the dead were watching Ned break his promise made to his sister and are sensing the Doom of House Stark?? This proposal is immediately followed by Jon Snow first chapter in the books.

Followed by JON I

BTW, in this chapter we have Jon getting completely drunk in the feast. Word in the castle have traveled and everyone knows Sansa has been betrothed to Joffrey. I always assumed that Jon was so upset in the feast, not because he was seating far way from the rest of the family, but because he heard of the news of the betrothal between Sansa and Prince Joffrey.

********************************** He had sated his curiosity about the visitors when they made their entrance. The procession had passed not a foot from the place he had been given on the bench, and Jon had gotten a good long look at them all…… His half sisters escorted the royal princes. Arya was paired with plump young Tommen, whose white-blond hair was longer than hers. Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar. Sansa looked radiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey's pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell's Great Hall. ***********************************

Jon is jealous, again, in a first glance we may think that he is jealous because he is a bastard and can not be part of such important ceremony, but what if he is jealous because he can not be sited right next to Sansa??? A few moments later, Benjen Stark comes to talk to Jon and that’s when Jon ask Benjen to go to the wall and take the Black…

A STORM OF SWORDS CHAPTERS 6 AND 7

Now those two chapters are quite interesting, because both are surrounded by SONGS, in Sansa’s chapters, we have the singer singing THE BEAR AND THE MAIDEN FAIR while Sansa is being introduced to the leader of House Tyrell, Lady Olenna also know as the QUEEN OF THORNS, while in Jon’s chapters, we have a singer playing The Dornishman's Wife while Jon is introduced to the leader of the Freefolk, Mance Rayder THE KING BEYOND THE WALL (who just happens to be the singer) Sansa is taken to meet the Tyrells by Ser Loras, someone she clearly desires, Jon is taken by Ygritte, someone who desires him. In both chapters Jon and Sansa are asked to tell the truth and their lives are in danger, Sansa feels like if she tells the truth and the information falls into the Lannisters ears she could be punished and killed and Jon knows that if Mance doesn’t believe what he says, his life is at risk. Sansa tells the truth, Jon lies.

In the end of this chapter Sansa receives a marriage proposal by the Tyrells, while on Jon chapter, Bael the Bard is mentioned in relation to Jon’s sisters. Once again, by the end of the chapter Sansa will receive a marriage proposal followed by a Jon Snow chapter.

The song THE BEAR AND THE MAIDEN FAIR, You may as well wonder where this song comes from, and it seems that Ser Duncan The Tall first heard this song at the Ashford Tourney (yes, that same Tourney that foreshadows the marriage between Sansa and a Targaryen prince)

Sansa I

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"The old woman turned back to Sansa. "Are you frightened, child? No need for that, we're only women here. Tell me the truth, no harm will come to you." "My father always told the truth." Sansa spoke quietly, but even so, it was hard to get the words out. "Lord Eddard, yes, he had that reputation, but they named him traitor and took his head off even so." The old woman's eyes bore into her, sharp and bright as the points of swords.

"Joffrey," Sansa said. "Joffrey did that. He promised me he would be merciful, and cut my father's head off. He said that was mercy, and he took me up on the walls and made me look at it. The head. He wanted me to weep, but . . ." She stopped abruptly, and covered her mouth. I've said too much, oh gods be good, they'll know, they'll hear, someone will tell on me.

That’s when Lady Olenna calls for a Song to cover up the conversation between them and finally makes their proposal.

Next chapter of the book is JON I

In this chapter Jon is brought before Mance Rayder, since Rattleshirt doesn’t trust him. In the King’s tent, Jon mistakes Styr for Mance Rayder. But it is the gray-haired man playing the lute who is the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Rattleshirt reveals his misgivings about Jon to the king, but Mance wishes to speak with Jon alone.

The tent was hot and smoky. Baskets of burning peat stood in all four corners, filling the air with a dim reddish light. More skins carpeted the ground. Jon felt utterly alone as he stood there in his blacks, awaiting the pleasure of the turncloak who called himself King-beyond-the-Wall. When his eyes had adjusted to the smoky red gloom, he saw six people, none of whom paid him any mind. A dark young man and a pretty blonde woman were sharing a horn of mead. A pregnant woman stood over a brazier cooking a brace of hens, while a grey-haired man in a tattered cloak of black and red sat crosslegged on a pillow, playing a lute and singing: The Dornishman's wife was as fair as the sun, and her kisses were warmer than spring. But the Dornishman's blade was made of black steel, and its kiss was a terrible thing.

If the show is correct, Jon is Dornish, since he was born in the Tower of Joy and if he marries Sansa she would literally be the Dornishman’s wife. I also like how the song compares the woman to the sun, which brings back to Jon thinking of Sansa as radiant. Jon blade, Longclaw is black since it's made of Valyrian steel and it was with a kiss that Jon killed Daenerys in the end. So this little song its foreshadowing pretty much the end of the story.

While Jon and Mance continue to talk, the King beyond the wall tells Jon that he remembers him from his visits of Winterfell, he tells Jon that he was also present at the Feast for King Robert that happened at the beginning of the novel, that’s when Jon mentions Bael the Bard back to Jon Snow story!!!

" The night your father feasted Robert, I sat in the back of his hall on a bench with the other freeriders, listening to Orland of Oldtown play the high harp and sing of dead kings beneath the sea. I betook of your lord father's meat and mead, had a look at Kingslayer and Imp . . . and made passing note of Lord Eddard's children and the wolf pups that ran at their heels." "Bael the Bard," said Jon, remembering the tale that Ygritte had told him in the Frostfangs, the night he'd almost killed her. "Would that I were. I will not deny that Bael's exploit inspired mine own . . . but I did not steal either of your sisters that I recall. Bael wrote his own songs, and lived them. I only sing the songs that better men have made. More mead?"

NOW LOOK AT THAT!!!!

Now this is the first time in the story, that the idea of one of the Stark sisters be stolen by a freefolk is introduced. Not only George brings back Bael to Jon’s chapter, he starts to associate the story with Jon’s sisters. Based on the end of the tv show, Jon will be the King beyond the Wall, and Sansa will be the last Stark woman in Winterfell.

"He gestured at the board between them, the broken bread and chicken bones. "Here you are the guest, and safe from harm at my hands . . . this night, at least. So tell me truly, Jon Snow. Are you a craven who turned your cloak from fear, or is there another reason that brings you to my tent?" Guest right or no, Jon Snow knew he walked on rotten ice here. One false step and he might plunge through, into water cold enough to stop his heart. Weigh every word before you speak it, he told himself. He took a long draught of mead to buy time for his answer. When he set the horn aside he said, "Tell me why you turned your cloak, and I'll tell you why I turned mine." …….. "And did you see where I was seated, Mance?" He leaned forward. "Did you see where they put the bastard?" Mance Rayder looked at Jon's face for a long moment. "I think we had best find you a new cloak," the king said, holding out his hand.

By the end, just like Sansa, Jon is asked to tell the truth. Mance Rayder ask Jon why he deserted the Nights Watch. Of course, we all know that opposite of Sansa, Jon doesn’t tell the truth, he lies to Mance about being resentful of the Starks.

A STORM OF SWORDS CHAPTERS 68 AND 69

SANSA VI

Now we have Sansa arriving at the Vale, scaping from Kings Landing. She arrives at the Vale with the help of Littlefinger. As soon as she is introduced to Lady Lysa she receives a marriage proposal to marry her cousin Lord Robert Arryn. The proposal doesn’t bring much joy to Sansa that laments that marrying for love may never happen to her.

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Lysa waved a hand negligently. "Not for many years. You are too young to be a mother. One day you shall want children, though. Just as you will want to marry." "I . . . I am married, my lady." "Yes, but soon a widow. Be glad the Imp preferred his whores. It would not be fitting for my son to take that dwarf's leavings, but as he never touched you . . . How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?" The thought made Sansa weary. All she knew of Robert Arryn was that he was a little boy, and sickly. It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love.

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NEXT CHAPTER????? Once again, JON SNOW!!!

I knew it the moment I saw this line next to jon’s chapter that George was planning this marriage. That’s why I never believe that Jon and Sansa would have a political marriage, this union would be for love.

A STORM OF SWORDS CHAPTER 79 AND 80

JON XII

We start the chapter with Jon practicing sword fighting with Iron Emmet and he can not stop thinking about King Stannis Baratheon offer to legitimize him and make Jon not only a Stark but also the Lord of Winterfell. During his practice with Emmet he remembers another fighting practice many years ago at Winterfell….

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Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne." That morning he called it first. "I'm Lord of Winterfell!" he cried, as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, "You can't be Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born. My lady mother says you can't ever be the Lord of Winterfell." I thought I had forgotten that. Jon could taste blood in his mouth, from the blow he'd taken. (A Storm of Swords - Jon XII) *****************************************

Jon thinks of rebuilding Winterfell, just like Sansa in the next chapter will literally rebuilt the castle in the snow.

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Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father's heir….. It was short walk to the bathhouse, where he took a cold plunge to wash the sweat off and soaked in a hot stone tub. The warmth took some of the ache from his muscles and made him think of Winterfell's muddy pools, steaming and bubbling in the godswood. Winterfell, he thought. Theon left it burned and broken, but I could restore it. Surely his father would have wanted that, and Robb as well. They would never have wanted the castle left in ruins.

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A interesting detail is that, the offer to be legitimized by Stannis comes with a demand. Jon needs to marry Val. Stannis wants the union of a Stark with a wildling princess, to unite the Freefolk with the North (but what if in the end we get a Wildling King marrying a Stark Queen?)

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"Good," King Stannis said, "for the surest way to seal a new alliance is with a marriage. I mean to wed my Lord of Winterfell to this wildling princess." Perhaps Jon had ridden with the free folk too long; he could not help but laugh. "Your Grace," he said, "captive or no, if you think you can just give Val to me, I fear you have a deal to learn about wildling women. Whoever weds her had best be prepared to climb in her tower window and carry her off at swordpoint . . ." (A Storm of Swords - Jon XI)

Ygritte wanted me to be a wildling. Stannis wants me to be the Lord of Winterfell. But what do I want? The sun crept down the sky to dip behind the Wall where it curved through the western hills. Jon watched as that towering expanse of ice took on the reds and pinks of sunset. Would I sooner be hanged for a turncloak by Lord Janos, or forswear my vows, marry Val, and become the Lord of Winterfell? It seemed an easy choice when he thought of it in those terms . . . though if Ygritte had still been alive, it might have been even easier. Val was a stranger to him. She was not hard on the eyes, certainly, and she had been sister to Mance Rayder's queen, but still . . . I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

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Jon is now thinking as a wildling and realizing that he needs to steal Val if he wants the marriage to be valid. Which is why I have no doubt that he is stealing Sansa in the end of the books, this storyline is foreshadow in his chapters numerous of times. But the marriage with Val doesn’t make Jon very happy, he doesn’t love her and hardly know her. Just like Sansa, Jon would like to marry someone he loves, and not have a marriage just for a political alliance. But the truth is that he does longs for a family, for Winterfell, he dreams to one day be a true Stark.

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Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they'd found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow. He had his answer then. **************************************

Finally Ghost comes back to Jon and he has his answer right there. The wolf brings back the memory when they all found the puppies. Jon belongs to the old Gods like his wolf and he cant turn his back to his old golds. I always assumed Bran sent Ghost to help Jon make his decision.

As he walked toward the armory, Jon chanced to look up and saw Val standing in her tower window. I'm sorry, he thought. I'm not the man to steal you out of there.

So we this chapter Jon Snow was forced to make a decision and turn down not only Winterffell but also the marriage alliance with Val, the wildling princess. He decides he wont be the one stealing her, but he did show a desire for love, family and Winterfell. Next Chapter we are going to have Sansa being “kissed by the Snow” and those kisses are going to rekindle her childhood dreams….

SANSA VII

(gif from https://iheartgot.tumblr.com/post/708718314588946432/glorianas-sophie-turner-as-sansa-stark-in-game)

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She had last seen snow the day she'd left Winterfell. That was a lighter fall than this, she remembered. Robb had melting flakes in his hair when he hugged me, and the snowball Arya tried to make kept coming apart in her hands. It hurt to remember how happy she had been that morning. Hullen had helped her mount, and she'd ridden out with the snowflakes swirling around her, off to see the great wide world. I thought my song was beginning that day, but it was almost done….. Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover's kisses, and melted on her cheeks. …. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams. *********************************************

Sigh, I will never get over this little foreshadow. The poetry, the romantism, the idea of dreams. This little paragraph will always be one of my favorites written lines in this entire novel. The idea that a new lover can enchant Sansa and bring back all her childhood dreams after all the pain and sorrow that she went through. And again, the dream involves Winterfell….

When Sansa opened her eyes again, she was on her knees. She did not remember falling. It seemed to her that the sky was a lighter shade of grey. Dawn, she thought. Another day. Another new day. It was the old days she hungered for. Prayed for. But who could she pray to? The garden had been meant for a godswood once, she knew, but the soil was too thin and stony for a weirwood to take root. A godswood without gods, as empty as me.

And then she goes to work, once she starts playing with the snow she wonders what she would like to build…

************************************* The snow fell and the castle rose. Two walls ankle-high, the inner taller than the outer. Towers and turrets, keeps and stairs, a round kitchen, a square armory, the stables along the inside of the west wall. It was only a castle when she began, but before very long Sansa knew it was Winterfell. She found twigs and fallen branches beneath the snow and broke off the ends to make the trees for the godswood. *****************************************

Again, in the past chapter we had Jon dreaming on rebuilding Winterfell, having a family, marrying for love. In the follow chapter we have Sansa literally rebulding Winterfell with the help of “Snow”. She longs for her old days, the days of her childhood. This for me was always one of the strongest foreshadows of their romance and future.

Then, we also have some interesting scenes that the show drop on us, that also are pointing towards a promise… first we have that scene on season 3 Episode 2 (Dark Winds, Dark Words) where Catelyn Stark tells Talyssa about a broken promise that she made involving Jon Snow and how she believes breaking this promise brought all this pain and sorrow to House Stark.

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Catelyn Stark: Many years before that, one of the boys came down with the pox. Maester Luwin said if he made it through the night, he'd liνe. But it would be a νery long night. So l sat with him all through the darkness. Listened to his ragged little breaths. His coughing, his whimpering. Talissa: Which boy? Catelyn Stark: Jon Snow. When my husband brought that baby home from the war, l couldn't bear to look at him. l didn't want to see those brown stranger's eyes staring up at me. So l prayed to the Gods, take him away. Make him die He got the pox. And l knew l was the worst woman who eνer liνed. A murderer. l'd condemned this poor, nnocent child to a horrible death all because l was jealous of his mother. A woman he didn't eνen know. So l prayed to all seνen Gods, let the boy liνe. Let him liνe and l'll loνe him. l'll be a mother to him. l'll beg my husband to giνe him a true name, to call him Stark and be done with it, to make him one of us. Talissa: And he liνed? Catelyn Stark: And he lived…..And l couldn't keep my promise. And everything that's happened since then, all this horror that's come to my family, it's all because l couldn't love a motherless child.

A BROKEN PROMISE LEADING TO THE FALL OF HOUSE STARK............

Later, in season 6 Episode 10 (The Winds of Winter) we have Jon and Sansa finally taking back the North and Winterfell together. Sansa tells Jon that she sees him as a Stark and Jon tells Sansa they need to start trusting each other, then he kisses her and remind Sansa of a promise made by Ned Stark.. (Interesting fact ton notice that after receiving this kiss from Jon, Sansa never again allows Littlefinger to kiss her).

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Jon Snow: I'm having the lord's chamber prepared for you. Sansa Stark: Mother and Father's room? You should take it. Jon Snow: I'm not a Stark. Sansa Stark: You are to me. Jon Snow: You're the Lady of Winterfell. You deserve it. We're standing here because of you. The battle was lost until the Knights of the Vale rode in. They came because of you. You told me Lord Baelish sold you to the Boltons. Sansa Stark: He did. Jon Snow: And you trust him? Sansa Stark: Only a fool would trust Littlefinger. I should have told you about him, about the Knights of the Vale. I'm sorry. Jon Snow: We need to trust each other. We can't fight a war amongst ourselves. We have so many enemies now. Sansa Stark: Jon. A raven came from the Citadel. A white raven. Winter is here. Jon Snow: (Smiling) Well, Father always promised, didn't he? ************************************

I really wished George had not separated Feast and Dance because we know Sansa receives another marriage proposal In Feast, to marry Harrold Hardying, and I am pretty sure if the books had been released a 1, we would have another Jon Snow chapter following that Alayne chapter, but alas, it didn’t happen. So, that’s my take, I am always paying attention to the change of chapters in the books because I believe that this is how George foreshadows a lot of the events in this book series.

So thats it, I can not wait for THE WINDS OF WINTER..........

#jon x sansa #jonsa #sansa stark #sansa #actually jonsa #jonsa is endgame

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rpgchoices · 7 months ago

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More on Davrin's character (his beliefs about gods and elves) (part 3)

I promise I will stop at part 4! I just want to collect all the possible info before I actually start writing fanfics. Part 4 will be specifically for his romance, tho I already wrote a small meta about it here.

This part contains SPOILERS mainly from Solas' murales/memories.

Part 1 (Davrin and his Dalish clan) here Part 2 (Codex, Davrin naming Assan and his journal) here

In this part I wanted to talk about:

Davrin and the gods (Solas' murales) plus some contraddictions with "Vows and Vengeance"

A bit more about Davrin's vallaslin (90% sure it is Andruil's)

Davrin's feelings abour protecting other elves

Some extra from the artbook (his age, when he left his clan, his armor)

Davrin and the gods/believing Solas' memories

Transcription of the video: (first scene) Bellara: And the mages who declared themselves my gods. Well, mine and Davrin's. And Rook's. Rook: They're not gods at all, much less my gods. Davrin: I'm with Rook.

(second scene) Emmrich: This is astounding! The ancient elves were spirits who voluntarily manifested a physical form! Davrin: I'd rather go back to talking about the blight. Taash: Hey, Lucanis. Could Spire turn into an elf? Lucanis: No. Bellara: Sorry, but. What? Rook: Okay, no. This whole spirit thing is stupid, and I vote we ignore it. Davrin: Seconded.

(banter) Bellara: Elf came from spirits! Emmrich: An incredible revelation of what happened thousands of years ago! Bellara: I asked Davrin what he thought, and he just shrugged! Emmrich: Ah, he would! Bellara: Rook! Do you feel any different? Rook: As an elf? Should I? Bellara: More spirit-y, maybe? I don't know.

While sometimes it is frustrating to see characters and companions not reacting to the big lore revelations, I find it works pretty well with Davrin. He is clearly uninterested in Dalish gods, even if in Vows and Vengeance he uses "May Andruil guide you on your path", and he is uninterested in openly (with others at least) talk about his feelings on the main revelations. Elves are spirits? He shrugs it away or decides to ignore it (much more interested in how this will affect elves than anything else), the gods? Not his, not interested in them.

He even calls Solas "Baldy" and is not particularly intimidated by him or by the two remaining Evanuris (or respectful of them). (And we also know he does not believe the Fade is real, tho much of that Emmrich banter seem more like he is teasing him).

Another small element of his relationship with the gods is another Vows and Vengeance comment. Someone mentions Fen'harel doing a ritual, and Davrin reacts quite alarmed, asking where the other person heard that name. Does he actually believe in Fen'harel? Or is it simply the idea that someone would use the name of the trickster god?

EDIT: UPDATE! There is a dialogue between Neve and Davrin where Davrin confirms he never truly believed in the gods, he always thought they were a myth.

Neve: Does it bother you they're elven gods? Davrin: It won't help our reputation, that's for sure. Davrin: But me, I never gave our gods much thought. They were just a myth. Neve: Not anymore.

I also wanted to say - yes, I know some discrepancies are probably writing related. To me the most "out of narrative" explanation is that the Vows and Vengeance writers did not fully consult about his character with the game writers, and the game writers rushed through these revelation and did not allow for many reactions.

About Davrin's vallaslin

In a previous interview the answer was not given (it was treated like it was supposed to be a big spoiler), but in the game, as far as I can tell, we do not see any identification for Davrin's vallaslin.

I talked before (here in part 1) about why I think it is Andruil's (or a mix of Andruil and Ghil) and now I am even more certain it might be Andruil. Not only Davrin is the one who tells of the tale of Andruil during the Solas' memories event, but in Vow and Vengeance he gives Nadia a blessing from Andruil:

Nadia: My love. He waits for me Davrin: Then may Andruil guide you on your path.

This is of course a Davrin pre-Veilguard. In Vow and Vengeance he also is alarmed by hearing that the Dread Wolf is doing something. I am a bit confused by how much he actually believes in the gods, at this point!

Davrin and protecting elves

In general, Davrin seems the only character to mention elves discrimination, mainly through banter or some rare comment here and there. We also know he is the only elf who lived away from other Dalish elves (different from Bellara who seems still in contact with her clan and lives with a group that highly respects elves), and we know he described his impact with the outside world as "different" (from what he imagined, see part 1 here).

At the end of the game, you can also have a banter between him and Solas:

Video here.

Solas: You are Davrin of the Grey Wardens. And judging by your vallaslin, you are Dalish. Solas: I expect you have been urging the team not to trust the Dread Wolf, based on the stories you heard around the campfire in your youth. Davrin: What story should I tell? The one about the Dread Wolf creating the blight when he and Mythal slaughtered the Titans? Solas: Have you told the Dalish? Davrin: Why? So it can spread and make humans blame elves for even more things our ancient ancestors did? Davrin: Sharing that story would get a lot of people killed. Davrin: So the best thing I can do right now, as a Warden and a Dalish elf, is to stop the blight and clean your mess. Solas: Mala shivanas ar athim.

(the last seems to translate as "Your duty humbles me").

A similar sentiment is shared after the "elves were spirits" memory from Solas:

The main core reaction we get about the Solas' revelations are not inwardly focused (his own reaction to them) but focused outwards: towards other elves. It seems not to be as important that Solas made the Titans tranquil as much as the danger of humans to blame elves. He is not as interested in elves derived from spirits, as much as he is interested in bigoted humans starting to see all elves as demons.

I think it is also interesting that he only mentions "humans", even if the reactions regarding the Titans would probably come from dwarves, it is clearly humans that in the DA world oppress and discriminate elves.

More Davrin info from the Artbook

I also just wanted to add this for completion sake!

He's in his early 30s and left his dalish clan in his teens. Usually elves (from the codex compiled in the wiki page) get the vallaslin around 18 or younger, so it could overlap to being just before his departure if he got the vallaslin in his clan.

Also the artbook says he created his own armor from different pieces!

I love seeing the stitches in his main blue-like collar jacket, and you can see some wear and tear on the rest of his clothes, especially the waist piece!!

#davrin #veilguard #bellara #veilguard spoilers #meta #solas #dragon age #da

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harlotofupdog · 9 months ago

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This was meant to be a groveling apology post but it turned into a rage meta post.

I have so many fics that I want to read or finish reading from writers whose work I truly adore, and so much art that I want to stare at and squeal about, and I just haven't got to it. There are fics that I am so in love with and I just… I can't open AO3 until I can just sit, y'know?

I know that literally no-one is counting on me for this stuff because I am a tiny wonker, but I feel perpetually awful about it nonetheless. I also have a bunch of fic stuff (writing and beta) that I never get to, and I'm now at the point where I'm so overwhelmed by all the things I need to do that I'm paralysed by procrastination. There's probably a few topsy-turvy chonkadonks of recent news that haven't helped, but the main thing is…

FUCKING HOTEL ROOMS.

I spend so much time in hotel rooms. I used to love hotel rooms. It felt like a little treat every time I stayed in a nice one. Bright white sheets, little sachets of tea and shitty instant coffee, minibars, dressing gowns, inconvenient power outlets, unflattering mirrors - I loved it all. But now I fucking dread them. They are my ultimate (bad) liminal spaces - just fancy transit points between the airport or the train station or the closest fucking McDonald's where I can eat a zillion nuggets until I feel better.

I've tried to be productive in hotel rooms, I really have. I bring my laptop, I bring my sketchpad. Sometimes I have a couple of free hours in the evening, and god, why don't I use them? Instead, I sit and think and scroll while I drink all the shitty tea and shitty coffee and sometimes an entire bottle of red or whatever tiny booze they have in the minibar.

It occurs to me, after 6000 years of fucking hotel rooms, that they are… Heaven. They are, right? Crisp, light, bright, stifling. There's the concierge in their nice suit, the fancy faux marble foyer, elevators that sneak up from behind and then DING as if you're the arsehole for facing the other way, mirrors fucking EVERYWHERE jump-scaring you with your own face, the end of the toilet paper folded into a little triangle... (whose bum needs that? A tiny triangle before the rest of the paper? No-one's bum needs that!)

And Heaven is always watching, isn't it?

The binful of teabags, the crumpled up packets of crisps-for-dinner, the empty bottle of wine - they will all be SEEN, along with the sanitary bag and the snotty tissues and the laddered stockings that I've wrenched off in a rage because now I have to go buy more. (WHY DID HOTELS GET RID OF BIN BAGS?)

We haven't even made it to the mortifying ordeal of ordering room service as a solo business traveler. I order the club sandwich, because that is the first thing you should order in a hotel, always - this is a rule. I eat it, it's fine. Club sandwiches have probably hauled me back from the edge of madness/chicken nuggets at least four times now. The next night, though, I don't want a club sandwich. I want something else.

A pizza.

There is no option to order a half pizza, and if I order a whole pizza, I will eat the whole pizza. So I order a whole pizza, obviously. I eat the pizza, because of course I do - it's not great, but it's kinda okay and it's something to do because I can't do any of the other things like live or breathe or exist in regular human form.

But when the pizza is gone, I look at the empty tray sitting on the slimy glass-topped desk and the realisation hits: they will know I know they know that I sat on my pristine bed, shoving melted cheese and prosciutto into my mouth, probably in full view of some late night meeting in the next building over, while staring at a wall and fervently wishing I were elsewhere.

There is probably sauce on the sheets and a bit of rocket on the floor that I can't find, and the TV remote is greasy af. It's basically a murder scene and I will feel guilty for the next millennia and a bit.

In conclusion...

Heaven is a panopticon and so is the Hilton. But Azi showed up for it, and so will I. Hopefully we can all make it back to the comfy, dusty book-filled spaces for good one day.

#aziraphale gets it #good omens meta #sort of #mostly just me moaning #good omens #writers block #readers block #just general blockage

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shellem15 · 5 months ago

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Putting my shitposting aside, I really do think that this "turn the gods mortal" plan is the pest possible outcome out of a host of bad options. The most obvious choice (and most reasonable in-text), keeping the god-eater locked up, is fucking boring. Sorry, it just is.

You can't wave a big red button in front of your audience for 60+ episodes and then *not* press it . Now, if the entire narrative up until this point had been "we *have* to stop the button from being pressed," then that's a different story. Your narrative buildup would have been focused around keeping that tin-can tightly shut, and so the other option (opening it) would be completely out of left field and narratively wack.

But that's not what happened in this case. Here, the buildup was about "will they won't they". And at the point Bells Hells were at immediately prior to stepping into that cage, anything else would have been a dramatic letdown. You can't just go "I might press the button" for so long and then *not* press the button at the last second without a damn good (well-developed and character-driven) reason.

But, on the other hand, slamming down that button no-shits given and going "fuck you" to the gods entirely would ALSO be unsatisfying. Why? Because Downfall, that's why.

Downfall made the gods truly *characters* instead of just set-pieces. If you didn't watch cr1 or cr2, you'd have no reason to care about these guys *until* downfall. The audience is invested in them now, and because of that investment we want to see a satisfying conclusion to their stories. Simply going "they're dead/gone now. deal with it" is not satisfying. It feels disrespectful, almost. Like they're just an afterthought and the investment the cast deliberately built up in the audience just doesn't matter.

It's the "rocks fall everyone dies" ending for the gods. And that sucks.

This is why this third option is SO GOOD in comparison. Because it manages to find the best of both worlds! You're pressing the big red button, thereby avoiding the dramatic letdown, while also not screwing over these important characters. It shakes up the world and makes things super interesting going forward, while also allowing the gods to continue *their* stories and develop and grow in ways not previously possible.

You gotta love a "Yes, and" type ending. Its a perfect setup for future campaigns.

...Also, goddlers!!!

EDIT: Can't believe I have to say this but let me clarify. I am a writer. I very often examine media from the perspective of a writer. This post is a meta analysis of why an audience might be/might not be disappointed by something from the perspective *of a writer.* I very highly doubt that the people who like this outcome or think its a fitting end are viewing it though the same lens As. A. Writer.

"The most reasonable choice in-text" I mentioned previous does not equal the most satisfying or engaging choice. If you're in a horror movie, and there's a spooky scary mansion, the "most reasonable choice in-text" would be not going into the mansion. That would also not make for a good story. Does this make sense?

#lets just hope bh doesnt fuck it up #im emotionally invested in this outcome PLEASE #critical role spoilers #cr spoilers #cr meta #critical role #cr3 #bells hells #cr gods #meta

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waterpomato · 5 months ago

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Weight Of Storytelling

WaterPomato's analysis of @aveloka-draws nameless fan art piece about Lamb and Narinder from the Cult of the Lamb videogame celebrating Día de los Muertos

Table of contents

1. Introductions to my analysis

2. The established storytelling

3. The weight behind the art

4. My minor criticism

5. Closing thoughts

6. Source to art

Introductions to my analysis

Why am I analysing a piece of fan art by Aveloka? Firstly, I enjoy analysing art because it's an endless source of joy to engage with a piece of media. Secondly, COTL has consumed a piece of my brain. Thirdly, I have followed Aveloka's art for months. That's my reasoning. I hope you find something to take from this analysis.

So, what am I analysing? Well, the title of this analysis says it all. However, my central thesis is that this is a romantic date. But I didn't have to tell you that now, did I? The art says it all, which is why it doesn't leave much for imagination. And I am going to approach this fanart as a romantic date between Lamb and Narinder.

Lastly, I must state that I am not an art critic. I do not have any formal artistic education. However, I am a writer by heart. That's why I am writing an analysis of an art piece that captivated a piece of my mind. Additionally, I shall remind the readers to be respectful in the comment section. You are responsible for what you say on the internet.

The established storytelling

Question. Are any of you uncertain of Lamb's and Narinder's relationship status? I'm not because I would have to be blind not to see the neon signs. Lamb and Narinder are absolutely dating because of how they hold each other. Their intertwined hands are practised to the sense of touch. Their bodies click together like puzzle pieces. What can I say you can't see?

Well, we know they are together. But what is the dynamic they have as a duo? Fortunately, that also shines through the clothes. Lamb's cloak is bright, loud, and colourful. On the other hand, Narinder is grounded in a dark suit that gives Lamb's cloak the most possible contrast. Do I have to say it out loud?

For the love of God, even the goddam background is trying to tell the viewer that the Lamb is a bottom. Have you noticed that Lamb is associated with light colours? Well, what do you know? The sky splits in half with light orange at the bottom. I am giving Aveloka points for doing that because it's amusing. Also, it doesn't help that Lamb doesn't have a single dominant bone in his body.

The weight behind the art

Let's talk about the bottom. We can say whatever because the Lamb is deep in the subspace. Well, who wouldn't be in that situation? Like, admire how he can snuggle deep into Narinder's embrace. It looks effortless, natural, and practised because Lamb fits like a glove. Obviously, Narinder leans into it with a grin.

Let's change the topic to the top. The other side of the coin. Oh my, isn't Narinder handsome? And the light is to thank for that. Honestly, do you see how Aveloka uses light for Narinder's muscles? The lighting highlights that Narinder isn't flat-chested at all. The contrast between the lighter and darker parts is excellent for giving weight and character.

And lastly. I bet none of you have noticed this small detail that gives so much weight to the art. Notice the leaves. Isn't there something particular about them? Doesn't it seem as if the wind is blowing leaves in a deliberately symmetrical way? As if the leaves are aiding our gaze towards the centre? It's subtle and effective.

My minor criticism

Now, I'm not merely going to throb the artist's ego because the work has issues. For one, Aveloka, where is the title for this art? Do you not respect your talent and labour, or am I missing something? Or is Feliz día de muertos🌼 the title for both of the art pieces that came with one post? (Kinda confusion for people like me if so.)

That was the meta-criticism. So we can finally move on to the piece itself. I'm not a fan of the UFO over Narinder's head. Genuinely, the sombrero looks like a UFO hovering over his head. Where is the weight it would have on Narinder's ears? Where is the layer of privacy it would provide for the couple? Why does it feel as if it doesn't impact the art?

Additionally, how and what is the third wheel, halo, or whatever the white splash behind Lamb's head? It bothers me because it's distracting, given that it's a bright part of the art. I want to enjoy the sense of love that you have created. I don't want to stare at a random light source that seemingly has little purpose.

Closing thoughts

Aveloka, you have done an excellent job with this piece. Yes, I have definite issues with this nameless work. However, they don't drag the piece down into the pits of hell. Especially since it's pleasing to stare for hours to find something new to admire. Additionally, is this entirely made out of watercolours? Like how? I can barely draw a sky with watercolours.

Aveloka, how long have you been drawing with watercolours because it's a gorgeous handcraft?

Last but not least, readers. Do you see the artwork in a new light? Even if I failed my goal, I hope you enjoyed this analysis and thank you for reading.

Source to art

#cult of the lamb #narilamb #art analysis #dia de los muertos

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zmediaoutlet · 5 days ago

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hi liz happy wednesday! i was going to ask you the question i've asked everyone else but im reasonably (very) certain i know the answer so have another question -

what's a pet peeve you have about established wincest in fandom? let's take it one step further - what's something that makes you dnf from a fic or even a long post about established wincest? and what's something you do in your own established wincest writing that you wish you could see more of?

aw, hello bud, happy wednesday of wincest <3 glad to see you back around sometimes. I also very much appreciate the tailoring of this to my best-beloved, established relationship. :)

This is surprisingly hard to answer! But I guess I can start with an umbrella answer, which is: in every single fic, all I want is for Sam and Dean to be recognizably themselves, at the age they should actually be for the fic (this is incredibly rare), at the correct emotional state for when the fic is set (this is also weirdly rare), with a solid understanding from the writer of What Is Going On With Them (could go any way). With E.R., you can make any decision you like about how the relationship actually started (...though lbr, again some of those decisions will feel more in character than others), but once we've gotten past all the usual tedious will they-won't they (and, god help us, we can also skip the stupid 'incest?? but that's illegal!!' conversation) -- now we are in a world where what was suspected has become True, and we can move on to talking about more interesting things.

What makes me gnaw my arm off, within that setting? I absolutely hate it when people write a Sam and Dean who just don't... like each other. Obviously there are times when they're having their domestic disputes (s4 and s9 come to mind), but even when they're furious with each other there should be an underlying understanding that -- seriously, they really do like each other. Dean is not abusive and he is not stockholming Sam. Sam is not a downtrodden bitter waif who suffers through Dean's love. Dean does not hate his responsibility to Sam and this is not, familyhorror-style, an awful circular burden. Sam isn't miserably resigned to this as the only remaining option.

You might notice that this is also the same kind of failure-to-grok-canon thing that I have with general spn meta, lol. The joy of E.R. fic is the exact same joy of the show itself, which is -- they choose each other! They have chosen and will continue to choose and will never accept another option, and more importantly it is the best option on the table. With E.R. you get the same comforting truth as you do in canon: the show is worse, and they are worse, when they aren't together. So when someone is writing a fic where they are together but you get that insidious sense that the writer 'knows' this is so unhealthy -- when, basically, they're mad at canon for being what it is, and are writing in a tone that doesn't reflect what we see on screen over and over -- I'm just like... yeah, no thanks. If I wanted some shitty-feeling wah wah ooh isn't my life so shitty incest, I wouldn't be watching or reading about Supernatural. Their relationship, sex included or not, is actually the best brightest most beautiful thing. And that is canon. (What the fuck! It's canon! What a show.)

If I flatter myself, and tbh I guess I'm my own biggest fan of my writing so I am allowed, the thing that I do well is reflect how Sam and Dean actually feel about each other, in any particular moment. I just want people to be specific. If you're writing s4, make it feel like s4. If it's weechesters I want them to feel young and if they're 40 please, for the love of god, hang out with some 40 year olds and write them that age. They can be doing ANYTHING -- shibari, handholding, pissing on each other, riding a ferris wheel -- but make them feel like them. And part of being them means that even when they're angry with each other they're still each other's first-and-usually-only; even when they're lovey-dovey feeling good, there's still a little corner of alarm that that's so. They're brothers and best friends and coworkers and all of that is deeply inflected with long history, love, irritation, charm, tedium, sorrow, bitterness, fart jokes. Cut a slice of it for the time you've chosen to write in, for the mood you want to hit, but don't forget that they're all of it. It's hard work, lol. Worth doing, though, I think.

#answers #happy wincest wednesday #tbh i think that was a shitty answer for a good question #but like. every 'peeve' comes back to that essential thing #like i fucking hate it when people have sam call dean 'de'#but it's not just because that's infantile and weird #it's because it really honestly didn't happen in the show #(you misheard. seriously.)#and so as a result: that isn't sam #and so i'm not interested in that guy. i'm interested in sam.#that problem blown up to size 500 font is what i'm talking about here #if you don't write dean as essentially wrapped around sam --#well that's not dean. and i don't want to read about not-dean.#and vice (of course) versa #be specific! it's the greatest gift you can give yourself

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roryqpotter · 4 days ago

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There’s no cover for this story because I am scared shitless to post for this sacred fandom. It took a lot of guts for me to finally take a chance and write one of my ideas out, so here I am with my first ever Destiel fic. Please enjoy this uber meta commentary.

Title: Supernatural IV: Raised from Perdition

Fandom: Supernatural

Ship: Castiel/Dean Winchester

Summary: Castiel returned from the Empty just in time to save Dean's life in that barn. It's been a year since that day, and they still haven't talked about Cas' speech before the Empty took him.

Sam has no idea what's going on since Dean won't open up about that day, and sends a text to Jack - who is now God. This sets off a chain of events no one (except fic writers) could have anticipated.

#supernatural #destiel #ao3 #fanfiction #shipping #otp

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ernmark · 10 months ago

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Juno Steel and the Case Closed (part 1) reaction

It's been a while since I've done one of these, hasn't it?

But it's the last episode, and I wanted to be here for the end. So if you'd like, some thoughts and theories under the cut:

It was a solid choice to have Nureyev go-- to make this final story about Juno and his world and his life, rather than specifically about their relationship. But also, the choices made around Nureyev's leaving-- holy shit.

Because here's a man who's spent the last twenty years entirely defined by his relationship with one man, and now he's cut loose and of course he's flailing to re-establish himself in a different orbit. And you can hear it in his voice, where it rises into something halfway to panic (amazing job, Noah Simes), and you can feel exactly how horribly wrong it's going to go if he goes down that road. And then there's Juno, who's healthy enough to be the voice of reason, even when it hurts him? Who makes it clear he's willing to wait until Nureyev is ready for him? Oh my god, that's perfection. (And Nureyev going maybe back to Brahma-- my little fanfic writer heart did a leap there). Nureyev may very well be back next episode (I suspect he will, if only for the final moments), but I really like this as an ending of their arc-- not the neatly laced up riding off into the sunset together, but looking forward to that sunset and being actually ready for it when it comes. It makes my heart feel so good.

And from that happy moment, to have Juno go back to Hyperion, to his office, and immediately start slipping back into his worst self? Oh, that's too real-- in a way that I am very happy with. Because he isn't 'fixed'. Juno 'born-a-sad-baby' Steel won't ever be 'fixed', not by romance or a vacation or a wonderful new family dropping him reminders of how much they love him. What's wrong with him isn't something that can be fixed-- but this time around it's different. This time around, when he yells at Rita she stands up to him (with a small, tremulous voice, because goddamn standing up to people you love is terrifying). I am so proud of her for that, and of him for backing off. It takes a palpable effort for him to rein himself in, but he's making that effort-- and he knows how, in a way that I don't think he did in those early seasons. It's a choice he's making, over and over again, just like it's a choice he makes to keep replaying Jet's wisdom instead of drowning his misery in tequila.

(Another kudos there: that Juno's problem isn't addiction, not the same way it is for Jet-- alcohol isn't a problem for him when things are going well, but it's easier to retreat into a bottle than to deal with his feelings. It's a distinction you don't see very often. Honestly, the way this show has dealt with addiction has been really refreshing to see.)

I've said from the beginning that one of the things that really drew me to this show was how it handles Juno's depression-- as a genuine mental illness that's an inherent part of him. And it's enheartening to see him struggle with it, but now be able to reach out for the tools and the support he needs. And that support doesn't have to be Jet literally talking him away from the bottle, or Rita or Nureyev petting him and making him feel better. He can reach for the pieces of them that they leave behind. And he can wish the Ruby 7 a good journey home, and send Nureyev to find himself, not without pain and grief, but without completely losing himself to it.

That kind of story gives me so much more hope than any kind of 'happily ever after' ever could.

And then the designated mystery, which has me so freakin' excited:

Nightmare.

She is the culmination of so many plot threads that I've been picking up on for so long and I'd completely forgotten about, and I am so freaking excited to see it.

I was in such a rough place emotionally when we last visited the most obvious of those threads, I genuinely don't remember if I posted meta about it or not, but it definitely struck some bells:

When Juno rescued Rita from Dark Matters, the safehouse she was in was described as being full of items that were clearly meant for a child. At the same time, Sasha was having Rita destroy all evidence of her own life so thoroughly that not even Rita herself would be able to find traces afterward.

It seemed most obvious to me that she was hiding a child (one that, I didn't realize until Juno remarked on Nightmare's area code, could have been hidden in the suddenly repopulated New Town without anybody asking inconvenient questions about who she was or where she came from). Also her taking care of a child would explain her ever-escalating reactionary tendencies-- she certainly wouldn't be the first parent who descended into authoritarianism in a misguided attempt to protect someone.

So some theories about who and what Nightmare is:

Alessandra's daughter is the most obvious, of course. (I still hold onto that theory that Sasha was either the Worst Client that Juno told Alessandra Strong about, or else that Sasha was the cheating spouse in that story.)

Nightmare could be Annie Wire's daughter-- assuming that Annie survived the factory, grew up, had a child of her own, and then died for real this time, leaving her grieving sister to raise her niece.

Nightmare could be Annie Wire herself-- dead, kept in stasis, revived by Dark Matters technology, and then whisked away to the safe house.

Nightmare could be a clone of Sasha and/or Annie. Honestly, not digging this theory, but I might as well throw it out there.

Nightmare could herself be a Radical, not unlike the Ruby 7, who's taken on Sasha's appearance and stayed that way ever since (after all, Sasha would have been at just about the right age when she was recruited by Dark Matters)

From a narrative standpoint, I'm most fond of the idea of Nightmare either being Annie or Annie's daughter, personally. Because that's literally the second mystery we were given, and it was pointedly never solved. As much as I like the idea that some mysteries just aren't and you have to make peace with that, I'm a big fan of long games like this, and of tugging on threads from the beginning of a story when you're wrapping up the end. That's especially true for Sasha's arc closing here, back in Hyperion City. Sasha's voice was one of the very first that we heard in this series, and Sasha's trajectory has always been a funhouse mirror version of Juno's. She's always been an integral part of his story. It seems fitting that her story gets wrapped up alongside his.

#the penumbra podcast #penumbra meta #penumbra theories #I love this series so much

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waitmyturtles · 1 year ago

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Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: A Honorable Mention For War of Y, and Another Look at How Thai BL Talks About BL (With a Bonus Watch of BL: Broken Fantasy)

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, I take a look at the more recent attempts by the Thai BL industry to critique itself with War of Y and the mini-documentary, BL: Broken Fantasy.]

2022's War of Y. Let me start this piece off by saying that this show is not good. My friend and BL elder educator, @bengiyo, once said about the OGMMTVC project, that some people (LIKE ME :'( ) just have to look into the abyss to satiate their curiosity about how this genre has developed, and that's definitely a point of the OGMMTVC. Not all past Thai BL shows are good, not by a long shot, and I don't recommend War of Y if you're watching dramas for pleasurable experiences only. (If you want to watch a GREAT drama that critiques the Thai BL industry, start with 2021's Lovely Writer, and I'll get more into this later.)

War of Y, directed by the chaotic Cheewin Thanamin and the I-am-assuming-to-be-misanthropic-and-indulgently-self-righteous-and-preening Den Panuwat, gave us 20 episodes of what I believe they thought to be groundbreaking critical art about the currently Thai BL industry. Let me set up an outline so that I don't spend too long on the bad stuff, and explain why War of Y does at least get an important mention (but not an official inclusion) on the OGMMTVC list.

1) What was War of Y about, how it was structured, and some quick high points, 2) Comparing War of Y to other pieces of Thai BL fiction that did a better job of critiquing Thai BL culture, and 3) A close-out reflection of Aam Anusorn's 2020 mini-documentary, BL: Broken Fantasy.

War of Y, as presented by Cheewin and Den, is designed to be a meta-drama of four chapters, all examining a specific aspect of the Thai BL industry. The first chapter, led by Billy Patchanon and Seng Wichai, focuses on two ship partnerships competing with each other, to the mental detriment of one of the older ship's celebrities; the second chapter focuses on two HORRIBLE warring managers; the third chapter showcases, in excruciating detail, god help us, a Y idol reality show, replete with singing; and the final chapter depicts the creation of a BL series and the rise of another super celebrity, whose career potentially gets derailed by his relationship with a female acting colleague.

Before I get into the few high points, I just want to say that this bloated structure (four chapters of five episodes each) did not do this drama well. It could have been edited down GREATLY for more succinct messaging. The other major issue I had is that the Thai BL genre -- as a romance genre itself, that demands romantic and coupled endings -- is just not the right genre to meta-critique the industry from which the piece of art comes from, not unless you're the screenwriter of Lovely Writer, who deftly managed some very complicated storylines into true art. There was no deft to War of Y. Couples got together in pandering and condescending ways, because that's how a Thai BL should end, right (?!); HORRENDOUS warring enemies suddenly made up with barely any context except to make money, and so on. I kept saying to friends during my watch that in a Den Panuwat show -- the worse you are as a character, the more likely you are to be redeemed for seemingly no good reason.

[Exhibits B and C in Den Panuwat's screenwriting record of questionable human characteristics? Fucking Only Friends and Playboyy. THE WORSE THOSE CHARACTERS WERE, THE BETTER THEIR OUTCOMES. Yeah, we really wanted those assholes to end well. ANYWAY. (I am committing to never watching a Den Panuwat show again. ANYWAY.)]

But there were a few high points. Actually seeing a Y idol reality show, something that international fans may not be able to appreciate with a lack of subtitles, was at least eye-opening for the inter-related nature of these kinds of shows, with some performers subsequently getting series gigs. (I understand that Santa Pongsapak, of My Own 12%, is an example of this kind of performer, who started out first as a music idol trainee.)

And the acting. Some of the acting was EASILY the best part of War of Y, as it very often happens in questionable Thai dramas: Billy (BILLYYYYYYYY), First Piyangkul, Dome Waruwat (who we most recently saw in Cooking Crush, and who absolutely SLAYED as one of the SLIMIEST, GROSSEST characters EVER, ohmygod), and

SENG MOTHERFUCKING WICHAI

(who will win one of the crowns as one of THE BEST FUCKING ACTORS IN THAI BL at the conclusion of the OGMMTVC project)

were easily the best reasons to watch War of Y. The range of Seng Wichai. It's ironic that he left Idol Factory last year, ending the BillySeng ship, and was then disgracefully treated like utter crap by the media and BL fans for the reveal of his relationship with Freen Sarocha. That, in itself, could make for a heartbreaking drama about the BL industry, but alas. We have War of Y instead. Seng is a motherfucking hero, and is also the KING of cringe, playing a horribly behaved actor who learns to overcome his insecurities to stand up against the advantages taken unto him by greedy managers.

We also had MANY wild and crazy cameos from real BL professionals in the show. @twig-tea and I agree that director New Siwaj's cameo was BAFFLING. He played a BL director (which he actually is) who maybe hated making BLs? (Maybe he actually hates it?) But still does it? And was mostly checked out of making the BL-show-within-the-BL-show, until he was called out about it, and then behaved like a good boy. Like. That cameo, along with a literally-evil NetJames and an even more inexplicable and weird literally-evil MaxNat cameo (wtf, that wasn't filled out AT ALL), were the really weird ones. The sad ones were ones like sweet NuNew Chawarin telling young BL guys that they have to sing (NO THEY DON'T). There was actual!Tee Bundit telling off Seng Wichai's character, that was rad. Director Lit Phadung of SOTUS and Dangerous Romance (😬) was there. Even the original novelist for Thailand's first television BL, Love Sick, was there, playing herself as Kwang Latika, who complained to a producer within War of Y that the show-within-the-show (yeah, I know) was taking her novel out of context. That shit sounds familiar! I could have used more accurate commentary on that.

The last high point that I can muster is that the show began to toe the line of the issue of actors needing to explore their sexualities for art's sake. As fans, we truly do not have much insight into this process, and I think it's for good reason, so as to protect actors (wherever they land on the sexuality spectrum) from very real, emotional, and sensitive processes and workshops that prepare them for taking on queer material. We know that actors like Nanon Korapat from Bad Buddy use Method techniques in their performances, and that can be mentally draining. Do I believe that some actor pairings experiment with dating, and may actually be in relationships? Yes, I must believe it, considering the psychological work these young men have to do to build attraction to each other for art's sake. The CEO of Korea's Strongberry studio confirmed as much earlier this year.

Unfortunately, I think War of Y leveraged these very sensitive realities to blatantly and flippantly indicate that ships can be ASSUMED to either explore sex with each other, and/or to even assume that they SHOULD be in relationships, à la the television BL romance formula that I mentioned above. I think this show could have transcended the romance genre formula, frankly, and I think the show came kinda close to doing that in the last chapter with First Piyangkul -- but not before setting up First's character, Achi, as a cheating monster-machine who was willing to go to great lengths to protect his fame, including outing his trans-female ex-girlfriend and co-star (YEAH, THAT HAPPENED), as well as separating himself from his ship and sexual same-sex partner while still indicating that they were dating. The whole storyline was just -- BLEH.

As I chatted with another fabulous BL elder, @twig-tea, about after I finished War of Y, clearly, Cheewin and Den thought they were intellectual geniuses upon the creation of this show, thinking that a BL itself would be a sufficient mechanism to offer meta commentary about problematic aspects of the BL industry (IT'S NOT). Twig wisely said to me that a writer or directly simply CHOOSING a topic to explore vis à vis a BL -- like a criticism of the industry itself -- is not, in of itself, worthy of laudation. And Cheewin and Den were CLEARLY expecting flowers by the end of this drama. If you've ever lived in smelling distance of southern California, you'll know that entertainment industries love nothing more than to talk about the entertainment industry, and that they think that fictional drama art is the best way to obsess over the vagaries of these industries (IT'S NOT). Instead, Cheewin and Den basically outed themselves as economic shippers and idiot faux-savants who are clearly in the game for fame, and maybe the dudes themselves, which -- BLEH REDUX.

On the OGMMTVC list, Lovely Writer does such a better job at covering the latent homophobia and judgments against actors within and external to the industries that take on BL. War of Y actually teed up a LOT of interesting topics, such as the BL-to-het-drama-and-studio pipeline that I talked about in my past OGMMTVC KinnPorsche pieces -- but these topics in War of Y just instead drowned in misanthropic meditations about fame, sex, and money that seemed far more suited to reaaaaalllly-bad Cinemax than, say, a proto-documentary.

The OGMMTVC syllabus also has YYY, from 2020, as a first entrée to BL-commentary-within-BL (and funnily enough, YYY also stars Lay Talay, who was the main anchor of War of Y, and was actually fantastic in both shows). YYY is a lot more succinct, CONCISE, zany, weird as HELL, incomplete, INSANE, not the greatest show, but HILARIOUS, simply in part because of its different and wonderful writers in Fluke Teerapat (a former BL actor himself) and Tanachot Prapasri. If you're looking for commentary about BL within wild-ass fiction (and if you're willing to watch it with shrooms or a fifth of vodka), watch YYY. (And remember that you're really watching YYY to watch Poppy Ratchapong eat his role of Porpla totally alive. Utter brilliance.)

Otherwise, as a means of complementing this review, I also watched 2020's non-fiction mini-documentary, BL: Broken Fantasy, by Aam Anusorn, another Series Y director who made the documentary, perhaps in part, to atone for past BL shows that he made, like 2Moons2 and Call It What You Want.

BL: Broken Fantasy featured interviews from directors, actors, and actual fans, about the nature of shipping, what the industry demands of actors, what fans themselves demand, and offered even a little bit of insight from two HUGE actors, Bright Vachiwarit and Win Metawin of 2gether and Still 2gether, about the process itself of young men acting in a queer coupleship.

The documentary is perhaps too short for its own good. And it sets up Aam as an unwilling participant within the BL industry, seemingly not knowing about what he was getting into when he first started making BLs (2gether's director, Champ Weerachit, also presents this way, which I found a touch disingenuous, as they were literally filming 2gether in the documentary).

But BL: Broken Fantasy hammered on a couple of important and real points. The economic benefits of shipping are HUGE. The sponsorship deals, the fame, the money -- they literally make young actors very rich and very well attended to. The fans EXPECT shipping performances, so that they themselves can situate themselves as caretakers or "mommies" to their young flock of boba-eyed actors that they worship. And for directors who want to earn money by making filmed art: the budding industry offers them that opportunity in growing spades. ( @lurkingshan will be happy to know that of all people, Aof Noppharnach, confirms to the documentary's audience that BL is a romance genre of love stories. As if there was any doubt, playa!)

At this point in time, in 2024, if I want a meta-critical understanding of the BL industry, and its many impacts on queer populations, fan bases, and Asian and global society, I'll go to Dr. Thomas Baudinette's Boys Love Media in Thailand and choose the academic route. We are SO LUCKY now to actually have tremendous academic discourse on the genre and its impact on media, fandoms, queer society, and global and regional acceptances of queer equity.

As opposed to the roads that academics are paving, War of Y allowed itself to bloat and gloat, on behalf of its creators, about their desires for shipping, for lavishing attention on beautiful young men, without offering us objective insight into the mindsets of these gentlemen who are important artists and creators in many of the shows we love. There needs to be a space for fair and objective criticism about an industry that may, at many times, take advantage of these young men. While there were many industry cameos in the show, the most frequent cameo was Den Panuwat himself. That enough should tell us what this show was ultimately really about.

[Well, as you can tell, I am fucking DONE with War of Y, laughing my azz off, and -- I'm off to greener pastures. I'm taking a cute and quick break from the OGMMTVC to devour Japan's anime version of Cherry Magic for an upcoming comparative (and totally self-indulgent) Big Meta on Thailand's and Japan's versions of that franchise. (And I have also been watching Fully Booked, AMA.) But I've got a long-awaited rewatch of The Eclipse coming up, to explore how GMMTV handled homophobia as a centered topic head-on, and from there, I go back to Idol Factory to watch Thailand's first GL, featuring the lovely FreenBecky, in GAP.

AND THEN: HOLY SHIT! FINALLY! My School President. I can't wait.

Here's the latest of the OGMMTVC list. If you've got any questions or comments about the syllabus, just mosey on over to this link and drop a comment my way!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) (and notes on my UWMA rewatch here)

21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (review here) 25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (re-review here) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review here) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review here) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review here) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) (review here)

31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) (review here) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch (Links to the BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series are here: preamble here, part 1, part 2, part 3a, part 3b, and part 4) 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) (review here) 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For the Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist (part 1 and part 2) 37) Honorable Mention: War of Y (2022) (for the sake of an attempt to provide meta BL commentary within a BL in the modern BL era), with a complementary watch of Aam Anusorn’s documentary, BL: Broken Fantasy (2020) 38) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 39) The Eclipse OGMMTVC Rewatch to Reexamine “Genre BLs” and Internalized/Externalized Homophobia in GMMTV Shows (watching) 40) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL)

41) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 42) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 43) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) 44 La Pluie (2023) (review coming) 45) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) (I’m including this for BMF’s sophisticated commentary on Krist’s career past as a BL icon) 46) Wedding Plan (2023) (Recommended as an important trajectory in the course of MAME’s work and influence from TharnType) 47) Only Friends (2023) (tag here) (not technically a BL, but it certainly became one in the end) 48) Last Twilight (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as Thailand’s first major BL to center disability, successfully or otherwise) 49) Cherry Magic Thailand (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as the first major Japanese-to-Thai drama adaptation, featuring the comeback of TayNew) 50) Ossan’s Love Returns (2024) (adding for the EarthMix cameo and the eventual Thai remake)

51) Dead Friend Forever (2024) (thoughts here) 52) 23.5 (2024) (GMMTV’s first GL) (thoughts here)]

#war of y #war of y the series #billyseng #billy patchanon #seng wichai #cheewin thanamin #den panuwat #first piyangkul #the old gmmtv challenge #ogmmtvc #turtles catches up with the essential BLs #turtles catches up with thai BLs #war of y meta

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